this post was submitted on 23 Dec 2023
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Seeing famous actors e.g. Robin Williams, and Bruce Willis suffering from dementia made me wonder in later stages do the people still aware of death? We all know death because we know the process we learn from or it's just that we instinctively aware of it?

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[–] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 32 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It's hard to say because by the time you're in what would generally be considered late stage, you really aren't able to communicate effectively.

What I can say is that what communication I have had with people that far gone did not entail anything about death. They weren't doing their screaming or babbling or general word salad about death in any perceptible way. Overall, I'd say half of the patients I took care of were patients because of some kind of dementia, and I was very often there at the very end of their process.

I never had any patient close to the end that had a form of dementia as their primary diagnosis bring up death at all. Meaning, no Alzheimer's type out dementia. Now, patients that exhibited dementia-like symptoms as a result of some other condition (usually brain tumors) did, in a small handful of instances say and do things that made it seem like death was on their mind.

Out of those, there's only two where I feel confident that what they were saying was about their perception that they were dying, rather than it being more likely that it was a product of the same kind of random things that weren't a sure sign that they were aware of their dying, if that makes sense.

Someone just saying disjointed strings of things that happen to include the words death or dying, it's impossible to be sure what they were thinking or feeling. Because it could be jumbled in with completely unrelated things.

But yeah, those two in specific, I'm fairly sure that they were at least partially aware of the fact that they were near death. Both of them said that they wanted to die, at some point in the process, though they didn't always say that. One of them said they weren't ready, or that they didn't want to go yet.

I don't know, and there's no way to know for sure, what they were thinking, if it was conscious thought, or even if it was actually them rather than just misfiring brains parroting things they'd heard in the past. But I "felt" like it was them, whatever kernel of their mind was left.

[–] wabafee@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

Very insightful thanks!

[–] kromem@lemmy.world 32 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Analyses of focus-group discussions at four nursing homes showed that dying was silent and silenced, emotions were put into the background and death was talked about after a person’s death. The staff did not talk about death neither with each other nor with the residents (100). This seems unfortunate as several residents have revealed that they were aware of the fact that they soon would die. One person emphasized that she was waiting to go to her real heavenly home. Another resident said that she was only living at the ward temporarily until she would meet her deceased spouse again and another one said that she wanted to listen to gospels while dying. Some did not speak about death and dying but reasoned about their funeral (60). At the last stages of life persons with advanced dementia often experience eating difficulties, especially swallowing problems (84–85). Several qualitative studies have reported that persons with advanced dementia at the end of life often exhibit aversive refuse-like eating behavior (101). There have been discussions about whether tube-feeding or comfort feeding should be used (102–103). The American Geriatrics Society (96) has recommended comfort feeding.

So apparently yes, even in the later stages there's still awareness and in the latest stage the refusal to eat may be tied to an awareness of its relationship to death and the choice shouldn't be taken away from them.

(Though really, starving to death sounds pretty terrible and like there might be better options for a more evolved society.)

[–] Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world 24 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

like there might be better options for a more evolved society.)

Like letting people go out on their own accord through a right to death. I hope that becomes a thing by the time I'm old, I don't want to just waste away and be a burden on my family

[–] NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world 29 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Dementia isn't stupidity.

Dementia is (among other symptoms) a loss of memory. The loss starts with the latest, newest memories, and proceeds to the older memories.

[–] JGrffn@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)

No doubt in my mind I'd kill myself.

[–] CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

That gets rid of all the memories.

[–] lars@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Everyone says this. No one does this.

When we’re at the hospital getting our diagnoses, let’s make sure we document how we will talk ourselves into tolerating that bullshit and how we decide to die on nature’s terms instead of our own.

[–] Crimsonknee@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

Robin Williams did. I'm sure other people do as well.

[–] wabafee@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Is memory the same as knowledge or this two can be different? In terms of my question, Is the concept of death a knowledge or a human instinct?

[–] NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

No. This is besides the question. It has no relation to dementia.

[–] otter@lemmy.ca 22 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I think yes, but how they experience it may be different from how they would have if they didn't have dementia. It also varies person to person, and time to time.

This elderly lady I know, she would talk about experiences from decades ago as if it was recent. But from time to time she'd also talk about missing the people in those stories knowing that they passed away.

It must be hard for them too trying to work through it all

[–] scarabic@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

Yes at a certain point I think that vivid memories are more powerfully connected to our brains than new sensory input is. As my grandfather declined he would look across the room at someone and think they were someone out of his past. And I don’t mean strangers walking past. He once thought his son-in-law, known for 40 years, was an old coworker.

[–] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world -5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I suspect you don't aware.

[–] LemmyKnowsBest@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I'm having a strange moment on Lemmy right now. Just like you, I was bothered that the title of this post was grammatically weird so I made a comment similar to the one you made, but yesterday I noticed my comment was getting some downvotes so I deleted it.

Then I woke up this morning to find this in my inbox and I thought, "oh great what did I do now?" so I went to click on it and my comment is gone Because I've already deleted it,

so how did this person respond to my comment that I deleted?

I'm wondering, can everyone still see that comment I deleted but me?

I vaguely remember it, it was something like "do you are like cheese?"

can everyone still see that comment I made yesterday even after I deleted it?

[–] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I think it's a quirk of federation; the comment may have propagated to other instances and been replied to by other users on that instance before the deletion propagated.

One way to circumvent this issue is to not delete your comments just because they get a few downvotes. You're not getting paid for Lemmy Karma.

[–] wabafee@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

It's all good, not really good with english grammar in general. I hope you got a good chuckle with my used of are in such a weird way. 😅