this post was submitted on 28 Jul 2023
379 points (94.2% liked)

Lemmy Shitpost

26245 readers
3327 users here now

Welcome to Lemmy Shitpost. Here you can shitpost to your hearts content.

Anything and everything goes. Memes, Jokes, Vents and Banter. Though we still have to comply with lemmy.world instance rules. So behave!


Rules:

1. Be Respectful


Refrain from using harmful language pertaining to a protected characteristic: e.g. race, gender, sexuality, disability or religion.

Refrain from being argumentative when responding or commenting to posts/replies. Personal attacks are not welcome here.

...


2. No Illegal Content


Content that violates the law. Any post/comment found to be in breach of common law will be removed and given to the authorities if required.

That means:

-No promoting violence/threats against any individuals

-No CSA content or Revenge Porn

-No sharing private/personal information (Doxxing)

...


3. No Spam


Posting the same post, no matter the intent is against the rules.

-If you have posted content, please refrain from re-posting said content within this community.

-Do not spam posts with intent to harass, annoy, bully, advertise, scam or harm this community.

-No posting Scams/Advertisements/Phishing Links/IP Grabbers

-No Bots, Bots will be banned from the community.

...


4. No Porn/ExplicitContent


-Do not post explicit content. Lemmy.World is not the instance for NSFW content.

-Do not post Gore or Shock Content.

...


5. No Enciting Harassment,Brigading, Doxxing or Witch Hunts


-Do not Brigade other Communities

-No calls to action against other communities/users within Lemmy or outside of Lemmy.

-No Witch Hunts against users/communities.

-No content that harasses members within or outside of the community.

...


6. NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.


-Content that is NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.

-Content that might be distressing should be kept behind NSFW tags.

...

If you see content that is a breach of the rules, please flag and report the comment and a moderator will take action where they can.


Also check out:

Partnered Communities:

1.Memes

2.Lemmy Review

3.Mildly Infuriating

4.Lemmy Be Wholesome

5.No Stupid Questions

6.You Should Know

7.Comedy Heaven

8.Credible Defense

9.Ten Forward

10.LinuxMemes (Linux themed memes)


Reach out to

All communities included on the sidebar are to be made in compliance with the instance rules. Striker

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

I can hear this post in their voices. Maybe I’ve seen the movie too many times…nah

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Carnelian@lemmy.world 64 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (28 children)

This is actually a huge pet peeve of mine. Just because there are an infinite number of possibilities doesn’t mean anything is possible

Let’s investigate the list of natural numbers. 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. It stretches on for infinity, but nowhere in this infinite set will you find the number 2.5. Or negative 1. Or countless other examples.

Next let’s consider a warehouse with an infinite number of CDs, each burned with a copy of the Donkey Kong Country soundtrack. Each of these discs are different. They have slight differences in the label, diameter, and flatness, due to manufacturing tolerances. They have different random bits that get flipped sometimes due to solar particle collision and quantum variation, which may eventually make different discs unreadable. They decay over the centuries at different rates, due to temperature and sun exposure differences in the warehouse (climate control for an infinite space is very expensive).

Each of these discs are, materially speaking, completely different from one another. But, from the perspective of our limited human perception, they are for the time being completely interchangeable. Whichever one you select, you will listen to and have the same experience.

This is by far the most likely scenario if we indeed live in a multiverse. An infinite number of earths, with an infinite number of you, lives filled with all the same mistakes and triumphs, all reading this comment together right now.

Edit: spelling

[–] Klear@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago (5 children)

What blew my mind is that it hasn't been proven that pi contains an infinte number of ones, for instance. It's not out of the question that there is a decimal place where the last 1 appears and there are none from then on.

It's not really likely, but we simply don't know and it is possible. It sounds weird given how many decimals of pi we've calculated, until you realise we've literally calculated 0% of them.

[–] Carnelian@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Yeah! It’s a really beautiful thing to think about. And exciting to imagine we may one day see a mathematician who works out the truth

[–] bric@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yep! Pi might be a "Normal" irrational number, which is a really poorly named classification that basically means that the "random" arrangement of numbers in pi isn't weighted and so you'll end up with 1 in 10 digits being 1, and that that will be true for all bases. We're kind of at a point where we think Pi is "normal", but we can't prove it.

If it is "normal" though, then that means that you could find any arbitrary sequence of numbers inside of pi, somewhere. Meaning that in base 128, pi would contain the ascii sequence for every book ever written, every book that ever will be written, every book that could be written, the accurate date of your death, and anything else you could ever imagine. Again, that's not proven, but we think it's the case

[–] blackluster117@possumpat.io 1 points 1 year ago

Whatcha got in that pi? Everything...

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] paddirn@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Whenever I think about the possibility of a Multiverse it just gets so unbelievably convoluted that I can't believe that that's how the Universe/Multiverse actually exists. Is the idea that every potential change in every atom or event in the Universe leads to all these other Universes, all co-existing, no matter how small & insignificant the differences? So we'd have a ridiculous number of Universes whose sole difference from ours is that a single atom behaved slightly differently in a rock out in the parking lot. Then multiply that by EVERY possible atom in the entire Universe, all behaving slightly differently.

That's just physical matter, what about conscious decisions made by living things? So in one Universe I filled my bowl of cereal with X oz of milk VS another universe where I filled it with X+1 oz of milk, and so on. All these micro-decisions that branch out into separate timelines, multiplied by the number of living entities in the Universe, every second of every day.

So are new Universes just constantly springing into existence at every moment in time, connected to every atom and every living thing, just brought about by tiny differences? I write some gobbledygook here: aksfhkashdf in one universe, adshfoasfdoajsidd in another, pooigjmasiodmfas in another, and so on. Multiple universes all suddenly springing into existence based on random key presses? Universes can't possibly be that "easy" to create can they, all that mass and energy, just poofed into existence, and it's constantly happening every second? Is mass, energy, and space just meaningless?

Or is it some other more basic set of differences describe the universe, just the starting conditions are different, but from there, each different Universe just proceeds as is, without multiple branching timelines? I'm not smart enough to understand any of it, it just quickly gets so incredibly convoluted and complicated for me to wrap my brain around.

[–] lowleveldata@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Natural numbers doesn't contain 2.5 because we define it so. Similarly all those CDs are practically the same because it's made in a factory designed to minimize the variance. Is there a similar strong will or intention in how a multiverse evolves?

[–] my_hat_stinks@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's an analogy, the specific case doesn't matter. It demonstrates that infinite does not mean literally everything, it's possible for some item to be missing from any particular infinite set. In a box of infinite apples you won't have an orange; in a box of infinite fruit you won't have a chicken; in an infinite multiverse you by definition won't have a universe which isn't part of that multiverse.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Carnelian@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I suppose then you’d have been more satisfied with the example of an infinite number of grains of sand, each polished smooth and strewn across an infinite beach.

Or simply an infinite expanse of empty space, each with unique coordinates, yet unable to be differentiated in the absence of any reference.

The point being, infinity itself is a concept we defined a certain way. And no part of that definition mandates variation. People who hear “infinity” and immediately conclude that, in one universe they are a singer, and in another they are an astronaut, and in another still they weren’t born at all, etc., are making an incorrect assumption about the nature of infinity itself.

Framed another way, we have exactly one example of a possible universe. Tell me, what creative force do you believe in which would intervene to ensure other universes play out differently?

[–] lowleveldata@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think a creative force is required to ensure other universes play out similarly, not the other way around. Things naturally spread out randomly instead of unified, variances accumulate to cause chaos instead of order. Similar to how the overall entropy always increase.

[–] Carnelian@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

We have reached the root of the disagreement.

Do things naturally spread out randomly? Given the same hand reaching into the same lottery box, does some inherent law of the universe guarantee that the number drawn is totally unpredictable?

Given our predicament of having limited information, and limited capacity for understanding, I agree that statistical models are some of the best tools we have, and a very practical way of navigating the world. Many things are effectively random to us, after all. We cannot hope to comprehend every variable at play when all of the numbers cascaded into the bucket.

But how random is it really? The electrical signals firing in your brain are as random and quantum as we could possibly imagine, yet somehow, you experience a single continuous consciousness, waking up as yourself morning after morning. How could that be possible if cause-and-effect were superseded by some principle of inherent chaos? Do you propose this randomness is merely too subtle to detect? In that case, it would be unfalsifiable, leaving us forced to conclude that the hand always draws the same number.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] bric@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Is there a similar strong will or intention in how a multiverse evolves?

Well, if we're talking about the many worlds theorem, then probably yeah, because both worlds came from a common starting point and evolve together. Like, imagine that I flip 100 quantum coins, creating 2^100 (1,267,650,600,228,229,401,496,703,205,376) universes in a multiverse. Every universe will be different, but the vast majority of them will have roughly 50 heads and roughly 50 tails. 7% of them will even have exactly 50 heads. There is one universe where every coin flip lands on heads, but it's only one universe among nonillions, you could spend your entire life searching universes and never find it. None of the universes are the same, but most of them are so boringly similar that you couldn't tell them apart. It's the central limit theorem, that lots of random events trend towards uniformity

nobody really knows, but if I had to guess I'd say that's probably the way our universe would be, our universe might technically be different from the one next to it, but it would only be different by a single electron on mars that decided to move an atom to the left. There might be a universe somewhere where all of the particles in a lotto wheel quantum tunnel to make the winning number be your number, but it would be outnumbered an infinity to one by universes where that didn't happen and it looks exactly the same as ours.

load more comments (25 replies)
[–] HardlightCereal@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This is like saying if Australia has multiple states, then there must be a state where Australia doesn't exist

[–] BarrelAgedBoredom@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

... but Australia doesn't exist???

[–] db2@lemmy.one 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

He's taking about Spiderland, which is dangerous if King Arachnos hears of it.

[–] HardlightCereal@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Who's talking about Spiderland?

[–] Afghaniscran@feddit.uk 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Makes sense, for the universe with no multiverse theory to exist they have to be part of the multiverse since we exist in a universe where it does.

[–] HardlightCereal@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And also, multiverses aren't part of universes. There isn't a state where countries don't exist, because countries aren't part of states. States are part of countries.

[–] MxM111@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Which states are we talking about? Political states or quantum states?

[–] 0ops@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

What always bothered me about multiverse moves is how a person's life could be so different across universes, even though their ancestors lives must've been fairly consistent across universes or they wouldn't exist. Hell, forget about whether you would be born, would humans even evolve? Would life even evolve? A lot happened between the big bang and your conception. A lot could've happened. I'm just talking out of my ass though

[–] misterundercoat@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You are correct in thinking that there would be an infinite subset of universes where humans never evolved. However, there would also be a much smaller, but still infinite, subset of universes where humans did evolve. And there would be a muuuuuch smaller, but still infinite, subset of universes where the history of the universe and all of human history transpired exactly as it did in our universe, up until the point it diverged with the necessary changes in order to be relevant to the plot of the movie. That tiny tiny tiny subset is the only thing we talk about in movies, because otherwise it would be too confusing for general audiences. Hope this helps.

[–] 0ops@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

That's a good point. A fraction of infinity is still infinity

[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

would humans even evolve? Would life even evolve?

[–] Lith@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I often think about the silicon lifeform from A Martian Odyssey because of how uniquely different it is from the carbon-based lifeforms we're used to seeing even in science fiction.

[–] ultratiem@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

One small change can lead to a totally divergent path. Think about it this way. You are supposed to meet your SO today at work. But you forgot to brush. No big deal. Right? Well your SO says hello, so you say it back and then she gets a whiff. Well end of conversation and that’s that. No wife. No kids. Not with her.

Or maybe you miss that buss that you barely caught. Or maybe you win the lotto at 19 and that changes everything for you.

You’re thinking wrong if you think lives have to be drastically different in every way for it to manifest as a whole new life. It can be the smallest thing but that tiny, infinitesimal thing can lead to a cascade of change or shunt people down an entirely different path.

Lastly, your ancestors would also be subject to these events, making all their lives very different as well.

Butterfly Effect.

[–] bric@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

right, but some movies show universes with very different pasts that still show a weirdly similar present. As you said, the smallest of things in the past should cause the present to be even more different, but in many movies that's not the case

[–] 001100010010@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Two Scenarios:

Scenario A:

There could be a multiverse and there are some universes within the multiverse where the people within them don't believe in the multiverse, but not believing doesn't mean it isn't real.

Scenario B:

Conversely, there could be only one universe and the people in that sole universe believes in the multiverse, which in this scenario, doesn't exist.

[–] snake_case@feddit.uk 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Let's say the theory of infinite multiverses is correct This means that there must be a multiverse where a version of me is able to traverse the multiverse. Then if there is an infinite version of this verse, then surely one of them will choose to visit my verse. Therefore doesn't this disprove the infinite multiverse theory? As no one has visited me yet?

[–] bric@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

Or the laws of physics are just the same between all of the multiverses, and it's impossible to travel between them. Maybe the walls between universes are so thick that nobody will ever even detect that the other universes are there at all, making it basically the same as there being no other universes in the first place

[–] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 1 points 1 year ago

Well, no, for a few reasons:

We don't know that, if multiverses are real, that it is possible to travel between them. Infinite variations doesn't guarantee this, because that just effectively means that all possible universes exist. Were multiverse travel to turn out to be impossible, then nowhere in an infinite multiverse would it exist.

Smaller and larger infinities exist. If the set of universes where you exist is larger than the set of universes where you have multiverse travel, then most of the time, you won't be in a universe that gets you a visit, even though the number of both is infinite.

If the way the system works is that a new universe is created for each possibly each time something happens, then every time someone travels to a different universe, it will diverge into one where the visitor arrives, and one representing the option that the visitor does not arrive. No matter how much travelling is done, there will still be a set, indeed an infinite one, representing the scenario where no visitor arrives is what happens every single time any multiverse travel occurs. In that set of universes, you never have received any visits.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Aceticon@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

A multiverse is something external to any one universe in that multiverse, so even in an infinite number of universes there cannot be one which redefines what's outside that universe.

The way it was stated is not a paradox, it's simply logically invalid.

Valid statements would be that in a multiverse there can be one universe where it's impossible to access the rest of the multiverse or that there can be one universe were the theory of the multiverse was never and will never be thought of.

And then of course, on top of this there is @Carnelian's even bigger point, which is that it's perfectly possible to have an infinity of possibilities which are all bound by certain rules. A simple mathematical example: there is an infinite number of decimal numbers in between the integers 0 and 1.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] raltoid@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Quantum fluctuation

[–] p3tricor@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

W movie, W post

[–] LazaroFilm@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Are the laws of physics different between each universe? In that case there’s a universe with no gravity…

load more comments
view more: next ›