this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2023

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275

Biden sharply critisizes Netanyahu’s government, saying Israel is losing support worldwide over ‘indiscriminate bombing’ in Gaza (www.washingtonpost.com)

submitted 11 months ago by jeffw@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world

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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 83 points 11 months ago (2 children)

There's been lots of misleading headlines on this, but this is the first time they didn't at least include the full quote in the article...

“We’ll continue to provide military assistance to Israel until they get rid of Hamas, but we have to be careful – they have to be careful,” Biden said. “The whole world’s public opinion can shift overnight, we can’t let that happen.”

He's not criticizing Netanyahu, and he's still saying he'll support him no matter what.

But for literal decades now Biden has been saying that to Israels government, and they've literally never listened, and Biden has never stopped supporting them.

Why the fuck are people acting like either is going to suddenly happen now?

[–] Eatspancakes84@lemmy.world 40 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I find this so infuriating. How do they think this strategy gets rid of Hamas? Israel indiscriminately bombing Palestine is the best recruitment tool Hamas ever had. Why do world leaders with the best advisors money can pay espouse such nonsense. Is there anyone who seriously believes this?

[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 22 points 11 months ago (1 children)

They don't believe it. It's just a talking point to cover for genocide. Nettanyahu, like all the right-wing authoritarian fucksticks before him, is about as attached to his excuses as the Navajo nation is to water polo (spoiler: they're not). It's just some bullshit to spout while you fucking murder people. If the excuse runs thin, fuck it, just make a new excuse, but this is the one they've spent decades cultivating by literally funding hamas.

[–] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Nettanyahu doesn't believe it, but Biden does.

Liberals are famously incapable of not understanding reality, just in a different way than straight up psychotic conservatives: Enlightened centrism.

Biden is a liberal Democrat, and quite literally believes things like the rule of law is unavoidable and will magically hold Trump to account regardless of what he or his AG do. They always think diplomacy with psychotic dictators will work. They never, ever understand that horrible people can wear a suit and are willing to do horrible things, too.

[–] NounsAndWords@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

The only way this strategy works is if at the end there is no one left to seek revenge. I'm sure there's a word for it.

[–] Kleinbonum@feddit.de 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Supporting Israel is not the same as supporting Netanyahu.

Biden and Netanyahu have a decades-long relationship that has at times been strained. At the Monday evening reception, Biden said he once gifted Netanyahu a photo and wrote at the top: “I love you but I don’t agree with a damn thing you had to say.”

“It’s about the same today,” Biden said, adding he’d “had my differences with some Israeli leadership.”

Sounds like he's criticizing Netanyahu.

[–] eskimofry@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

It sounds like he loves Netanyahu

[–] Veedem@lemmy.world 44 points 11 months ago (3 children)

This is like 3 weeks over due. Cmon man

[–] evatronic@lemm.ee 19 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Appreciate progress when it happens, even if it's late.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 23 points 11 months ago

So...

You haven't seen any of the posts with his full quote where he doubles down on the US supporting them anyways?

He's not mad at the genocide. He's mad Israel isnt hiding it well.

He's been saying this to Israel for about 50 years now. They've never listened to him. And he's never stopped supporting them.

People need to stop giving credit for shit he's not doing

[–] Wermhatswormhat@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago

While I 100% agree with you, we don’t know the full story of what has happened behind closed doors. I’m hopeful that this is not the first time he has warned Israel that they’re being giant douches and the world is starting to hate you.

[–] themeatbridge@lemmy.world -2 points 11 months ago

Dude is 80 years old. He gets there when he gets there.

[–] cosmicrookie@lemmy.world 27 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Didnt the US just veto a cease fire agreement? How can the us president critisize indiscriminate bombing but veto an attempt to stop it?

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

How can the us president critisize indiscriminate bombing but veto an attempt to stop it?

Easy. Biden is simply posturing for purposes of damage control - the massive failure of the pro-Israeli propaganda machine has taken the US political establishment by complete surprise (it is probably also calculated to "distance" Biden from the predictable batshit pro-Israeli posturing GOP candidates are going to be oozing next year).

[–] Defaultusername92@mtgzone.com 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Probably cause he wants to please the republicans by helping Israel and also please the dems by telling the IDF to at least try and limit the civilian casualties. He really should just pick a lane here.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 20 points 11 months ago

Biden basically said "I will always support israel no matter how much genocide they do, but the Europeans are starting to stop their support and the rest of the world hates israel with a passion now"

[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 19 points 11 months ago (1 children)

"Just because we keep sending you bombs, doesn't mean you have to use them all!"

[–] Milk_Sheikh@lemm.ee 19 points 11 months ago (1 children)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/01/the-gospel-how-israel-uses-ai-to-select-bombing-targets

Except the bombing isn’t indiscriminate. The IDF/war cabinet have a pretty good idea how many civilians they’ll have to murder* in order to kill Hamas members hiding amongst the populace.

They’re leveraging AI to build ‘target packages’ using data from extensive drone and/or satellite footage. Locate a militant, track their movements, and the AI can roll back the footage and count how many people entered and left the building beforehand.

Targeted killings like we saw in Jenin during this summer/fall are ethically and legally tenuous, but at least a hit squad doesn’t level entire buildings…

*Yes, murder. If you know with strong confidence that your actions will kill someone/several someone’s, and do it anyway? That’s no longer ‘the fog of war caused an error’ it’s very deliberate act of violence aimed at the populace

[–] nonailsleft@lemm.ee -5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

aimed at the populace

Well if the article is correct, it's still aimed at the militants

[–] aodhsishaj@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

What a great way to create more militants.

[–] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Oh yeah? I bet you can't even name one 20 year war on terror that never ended because you can't fight an ideology while also enabling the spread of that ideology through civilian casualties. Wait.

But seriously, it's like Israel looked at Afghanistan and decided the issue was there weren't enough civilian casualties. Which, yeah, if there's no civilians left then there's nobody left to radicalize, but I think there's a word for that and it rhymes with genocide.

[–] homura1650@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

In the days after after 10/7, we heard Israeli diplomats talk about how it was their 9/11. On the one hand, I get the comparison and how it explains the shock 10/7 has had on the Israeli phsyce. On the other hand, I get the 9/11 comparison and how it explains the emotional response of launching an impossible military canpaign that will result in a generation defining 20 year quagmire.

Seriously. Any time someone uses a 9/11 comparison to justify Israel's response, the immediate followup should be "how did the American response work out"?

[–] nonailsleft@lemm.ee 0 points 11 months ago

Well, it's certainly not a fun subject to talk about but there's always a point where a threat of bullying, discrimination, violence, ethnic cleansing and eventually mass murder will eventually break a population. Take recent examples of Nagorno-Kharabag ending in a complete exodus with very few casualties, or Western Sahara where clear military superiority broke the resistance against annexation.

Regarding Afghanistan: one can certainly ask the question whether more violence or the threat of it could not have produced a better outcome. NATO tried to go cheap on manpower (compared to Germany and Japan for example), instead buying off warlords to compensate and mistakely thinking the more progressive forces in the country would become strong enough to take over at some point. Had they went in heavier with less regard for collateral damage, or have a soldier looking at every Pashtun all of thetime, the result could have been very different and, dare I say, better

[–] Milk_Sheikh@lemm.ee 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yes they are aiming militants, never said they’re consciously targeting the populace, just appalled at their indifference towards civilian deaths as ‘acceptable’.

The IDF/war council is seemingly a-okay if they have to kill 10, 50, 200+ civilians to get at Hamas mid-level commanders - is that okay with you?

[–] nonailsleft@lemm.ee 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Well if you agree that it's a question of how far you're willing to move the slider, it's a question of empathy. But when you say "aimed at the populace" that implies you believe they're using Hamas as an excuse to kill innocent civilians.

Do you honestly believe Israel would not prefer Hamas to assemble somewhere in the desert away from any civilians so they can take all of them out with a single bomb? Do you believe the Israelis would be sad if Hamas surrendered?

[–] Milk_Sheikh@lemm.ee 2 points 11 months ago

Again, the displayed indifference towards civilian suffering is the core issue. Declaring the south as a ‘safe zone’ pre-ceasefire was a moral move (with disasterous humanitarian results), but now the safe areas are capricious defined and aren’t static,

Regarding the “one bomb in the desert” question? Any other year, yes I’m sure they’d prefer that. But Bibi was already in serious legal trouble before Oct.7 and is openly deferring that issue until after the Hamas war. Keeping the conflict open, progressing slowly, or unresolved buys him time to find a way to stay out of jail.

Is this an excuse for wanton murder of Gazans? You tell me? Certain elements of the coalition have openly made statements that at best call for displacement of Palestinians. Cutting off fuel, food, and water to a region under blockade, while those people are displaced and simultaneously refusing to allow aid in is ghoulish.

[–] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago

And who is enabling that indiscriminate bombing, Joey boy?

[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Did he finally figure out that supporting Israel through this isn't a good look for him?

[–] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago

He still supports Israel. He's trying to thread a needle.

[–] VelvetStorm@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Not worried about killing kids just worried how it will make him look.

[–] PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee 8 points 11 months ago

It's the neoliberal way.

A few hundred dead Palestinian kids isn't going to worry a wealthy neoliberal. Not their kids, not their country.

But "bombing targets going unbombed" fundamentally means "profits going unprofited" and that's an idea that brings a neoliberal out in a cold sweat.

Ultimately, Biden's statement is just his part in the pantomime. He's doing the "left-wing neoliberal" thing where he does exactly the same horrific shit as the right-wing neoliberals, but he frowns while he does it.

If he doesn't frown hard enough, he might lose the election, but it's not going to stop the children being blown up or the neoliberals profiting from it.

[–] bleistift2@feddit.de 11 points 11 months ago

2 months ago they cut off electricity, gas, food and water and now they lose support?

[–] Leg@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago

I'm so tired, so very tired of the theater of American politics using human lives as sacrificial pawns, all so that the song and dance can continue for time immortal. There's no end in sight, is there?

[–] Doorbook@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

So does he agree it is "indiscriminate bombing"? Because I think there is another words for it called "war crime"!

[–] BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 11 months ago

Surely a sharp finger-wagging will get them to stop

[–] just_another_person@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

What about the shelling with White Phosphorus? Want to say anything about that?

[–] Rapidcreek@reddthat.com 3 points 11 months ago

Bibi stepped in it by announcing that he out and out rejected the US proposal. Bibi also has no fan club among most American Jews.

[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago

Where are they getting those bombs?!!!! Fucking world governments.

[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 0 points 11 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

President Biden offered sharp criticism of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government Tuesday, calling for a change to the approach embraced by Israel’s leadership — which Biden described as “the most conservative” in Israel’s history.

The president said Israel was beginning to lose support around the world due to “indiscriminate bombing” in remarks made during a fundraiser in Washington, and urged Israel to seek a long-term solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

He added that he warned Netanyahu about repeating mistakes made by the U.S. after 9/11, while reiterating his support for Israel’s mission to “take on Hamas.”

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