this post was submitted on 21 Nov 2023
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Asklemmy

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[โ€“] Jackthelad@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm not religious or spiritual at all, but the Buddhist way of thinking, viewing the world and how to improve yourself is always interesting.

[โ€“] robber@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

What do you find intersting about it?

[โ€“] Witchfire@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I follow a pagan path (but I'm not Wiccan). I view it more as a spirituality than a religion since it isn't organized or faith based. It just resonates with me. I wear witchy jewelry for personal comfort, maintain an altar at home (mostly for tarot, incense and meditation), love to study folklore and pagan practices in other parts of the world, celebrate the wheel of the year, and honor nature and the cosmos above all.

I grew up atheist and still consider myself one since I view gods as a reflection of the real world, akin to Mother Nature.

[โ€“] robber@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

That's interesting, how did you come to that?

[โ€“] Saigonauticon@voltage.vn 3 points 1 year ago

Haha I'm another atheist with an altar at home! Instead of religious symbols, there are framed pictures of ancestors.

Normally in Asia we worship at these altars (usually involving serving food and drinks), but I don't do that. I just see it as a nice reminder of the memories I've had with all those people, and a connection to the past.

...although the idea you can crack open a beer with your ancestors from time to time is sort of neat.

[โ€“] Immersive_Matthew@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Logic because it brings me closest to the reality I perceive and thus find my way easier.

[โ€“] robber@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

That's been my way as well so far. I'd be interested in how logic helps you cope with questions, such as where do we come from?, where do we go?, what is our purpose?. (Not playing devil's advocate, real interest.)

I think those questions are great, but the answers will always lead to more questions. It is a journey in that regard which I suppose is logically driven. I think the best analogy is asking what is this table. It is made of wood and screws. What is wood made ofโ€ฆfibres. What are the fibre made of, carbon and other atoms. What was the atoms made ofโ€ฆ.etc. etc. Logic brings you closer to reality, but the closer you get, the more questions you will have which is one of the joys of life.

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[โ€“] girl@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Iโ€™m an agnostic atheist, but recently Iโ€™ve been drawn to somewhat pagan beliefs about spirituality in nature. I canโ€™t bring myself to believe in some mother Gaia goddess that controls the flow of nature, but something about nature holding innate power and energy rings true. Iโ€™m still figuring it out.

I had some traumatic events happen in my life recently, and in looking for ways to feel safe again I found myself believing in things Iโ€™ve never believed in before. I had some serious dysphoria about it lol, I was like โ€œis this how ancient humans developed religions? A result of terror and seeking comfort?โ€ As someone who became an atheist on my own as a young child, having any belief in something without actual evidence was making me question a lot about myself. But I donโ€™t think I need to pigeon-hole myself into any self-made boxes, I can just let my beliefs be.

[โ€“] robber@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

Thanks for sharing, I can relate to the desire for comfort and hope you can find it somewhere soon.

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[โ€“] BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Nothing, I guess I just never needed any spiritual support. I grew up an atheist, my parents never took me to any church or prayed or told any religious stories of any kind. Then suddenly, in high school, I decided to tell them I was non religious they were surprised. They said we are Methodists. Well, that's news to me. Maybe you are, but I was never baptized or anything.

Funny thing, I also never got "the talk." I managed to figure things out for myself there, too.

[โ€“] NormDeplume@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Stoicism. The two major figures that I use to discuss stoicism are Viktor Frankl and Epictetus. Epictetus was born a slave and was crippled by his owner, but eventually was freed and found a happy life teaching Stoicism. Viktor Frankl wrote about finding meaning in life even living in the concentration camps. While not explicitly Stoic, his Logotherapy lines up very well with Stoic principles.

As for the spiritual component: https://stoickai.com/2019/09/19/the-stoic-god-a-call-to-science-or-faith/

https://traditionalstoicism.com/a-conscious-cosmos/

[โ€“] Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

As an athiest I also like stoicism a lot. Epictetus is definitely a real one, loved reading discourses. Would also recommend Seneca although I found it a bit drier. And the famous Meditations from Marcus Aurelius.

[โ€“] TeaHands@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

I had to think about this for a minute because I'm British and religion is just not a huge deal here so I don't often think about it. Got some religious friends (mostly Americans but there are a few here too) but it's just never really been a part of my life in a positive or a negative way.

My philosophy pretty much boils down to "we're just here, roll with it" because anything else is essentially looking for meaning where it appears to not exist.

[โ€“] disheveledWallaby@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I pray to Joe Pesci, because he looks like a guy that can get things done!

[โ€“] statist43@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I just saw a comedian yesterday saying the same haha. but I forgot the name

George Carlin, live at the Paramount 1992 a special for HBO if I remember correctly.

[โ€“] bigboismith@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Nihilism. Imagine there being no past nor future, but like a child in a waiting room for the abyss you're given a paper and some crayons. Why wouldn't you try to draw the greatest piece you could? And if something goes wrong, well it's just a happy accident. It's not like this matters anyway. That's how I see my life. This mindset let's me not stress over old mistakes, while still striving to be better. I don't want to waste this metaphorical paper but it doesn't matter what I do with it in greater whole, since there isn't a greater whole.

You know, it makes so much sense, and I truly resonate with tbese ideas, but I've never been able to put them into practice. I'm still finding myself running 5 minutes late leaves me super stressed, even though I'm now at university where being late for a lecture literally does not matter, or at college, where for the last few months it really didn't matter but I still couldn't quite just relax. I've been trying to live a more stress-free life and this belief system really helps me do that, if only I could find a way to not hyperfocus on small and insignificant issues or mistakes. Stress has been hurting me, to the point where oftentimes I would find it difficult to keep my hand stillin the air, and it would just start slightly twitching, as if I have Parkinson's.

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[โ€“] shrugal@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I'm an atheist through and through, but the one thing I'm unsure about is consciousness.

We basically made zero progress in figuring out what it physically is, how to test for it or how it is created, despite every single one of us experiencing it first-hand every day of our lives. That might be a sign that our physical understanding of reality is just not equipped to deal with this question.

On the other hand, if it has physical consequences then it must measurably interact with the physical world, and maybe it emerges from the complex interactions in the brain somehow. I personally just cannot imagine how the thing I'm subjectively experiencing as myself could ever arise from "dead" atoms and molecules.

[โ€“] RGB3x3@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The main reason I think consciousness is just advanced firing of synapses in the brain is because drugs can impact it, surgeries can impact it, flaws in the system can impact it.

If it was anything more than physical, these things wouldn't affect consciousness so easily.

Take those who have had their Corpus Callosum split. It's widely viewed that patients with this procedure end up with two distinct consciousnesses communicating with each other (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7305066/) which suggests to me that consciousness must be nothing more than the effects of complex physical systems in our brains.

[โ€“] shrugal@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If it was anything more than physical, these things wouldnโ€™t affect consciousness so easily.

We know that it changes perception and behavior, because those are the things we can measure. We have no idea if it affects consciousness, because we don't even know what that is.

[...] which suggests to me that consciousness must be nothing more than the effects of complex physical systems in our brains.

The problem I have with these studies is that they all test the functions of the brain and its hemispheres, and then argue what the produced consciousness(es) could look like based on some preconceived notion of what a consciousness can an cannot do. But who says that one consciousness cannot make two different choices simultaneously for example? Ofc it's the best we have right now and imo very interesting and important work, but it's still nothing like actually "detecting" consciousness and analyzing its properties. The sad truth is that we still have no f*cking clue.

I know that this all sounds very ominous, but that's kind of the point. Consciousness as I'd define it is not just the mechanical function of the brain, but the experience of being "present".

Personally, I am an atheist, and I find nihilism, absurdism, and to a lesser extent, stoicism, to be the philosophies I most closely resonate with.

[โ€“] LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm Eastern Orthodox, I believe it to be the full and complete continuation of the Christian Church from its earliest days.

[โ€“] robber@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How do you come to this conclusion?

[โ€“] LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There are only two major churches which have a valid historical claim to be a direct succession of the original Church, the other one being the Roman Catholic Church. On the major points of contention - the filioque and papal supremacy - I found the history of the early Church to be solidly supporting of the Orthodox view.

[โ€“] c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I found the history of the early Church to be solidly supporting of the Orthodox view.

Not to be a dick, but that's because they did their absolute best to kill heretics and dismantle their belief systems by destroying their literature.

The early church had a lot of ideas about Jesus and his purpose, but the gnostics and other groups were all suppressed by the Orthodox Church and we only know about their beliefs through the lens of their interlocutors.

History is written by the victors, if the Orthodox Church is responsible for early church history they're going to give you their version of it.

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[โ€“] eezeebee@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago

Any of them that help people live easier or better lives, up to the point that that belief negatively impacts others' lives. Do what you want as long as it doesn't come at the expense of someone else.

[โ€“] intensely_human@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago

I've never found a religion whose adherents weren't willing to support me if I asked.

[โ€“] zxqwas@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

I don't.

I acknowledge the sense of community and belonging a religion can bring but I find the entire notion of believing in anything supernatural to be absurd.

[โ€“] RBWells@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I wouldn't call it support or comfort but I often think if there was reincarnation then everyone must eventually live every life, so those who are killing will also be the killed, we will all end up living the lives of those we despise too, and that would be fair.

Also I think about just how little we can perceive of the world and universe, we have techniques and senses to see this pinhole view, and mostly trust it, but it's so much bigger and more complex than we can imagine or perceive.

[โ€“] LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)
[โ€“] CeruleanRuin@lemmings.world 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's a nice pat way of thinking of things, but it presupposes some sort of justice or built-in meaning to the universe, when the real truth is that there is no inherent meaning to any of it. Meaning is an emergent property that evolves with the development of sapience.

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[โ€“] statist43@feddit.de 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I like to believe in nature and energy. I don't know, but this is is what we can "see" and detect. Its universal, the rules are real. And it is the cause of everything.

I feel like this image of "worshipping the sun" is kind of the most realistic in terms of cause and effect. Its the reason we live and can do stuff. Its the reason for any kind of life to be there and enjoy this expirience.

I mean, with the availible technology we are able to look into the outer space right till the nearest galaxy before the cosmic radiation and the big bang. We can detect the behaviour of the inside of colliding protons. We can adress almost every reaktion which happens to substantial energies, like gravitation, electro magnetic energy, strong and weak core forces (I believe its called, as Im not a english native).

And we still didn't find a "godlike" force, which is able to control what happens. Or that changes its behavior if you say nice words. Even if there is sth. but we can not detect its force in protons or in galaxies, or any kind of (right now) detectable frequencys. Why should I care for it? It clearly has no control over anything in this universe, so all the energy I put into the "believing" is kind of useless.

Of course if you belive in sth. You will put in the energy and kind of "manifest" it if you do it. But this is not because you convince a supernatural beeing to be kind with you. Its because we are a super complex "energy transformer" which are concious of its abilities to adjust our surroundings to our abilities.

And if sth happens by incident, there is always a plausible action which happened before.

It will probably mean, that there is nothing after this "expirience" and this is kind of creepy. But to be here and expirience it, this whole series of unprobabilities which bring me to generate pixels for you to read. From the first enzymes till now. All of this had to happen, for this exact moment.

Im happy that I can enjoy this life, and grateful for my intact body and the reason for me to have this is uncountable different probabilities.

But where it comes from, or where it will go. I dont know.

[โ€“] sylver_dragon@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

RNGesus take the wheel!
I actually find it much more comforting to believe that there isn't any sort of supernatural phenomena. And that our universe is entirely the product of explainable natural laws, through likely quantum and probabilistic in may nature. Along with random chance.

If the universe is fully a system of laws, then we can have some measure of control over the outcome. If the universe is ruled by supernatural forces which we can neither categorize nor understand, then we have no control and at any second those supernatural powers could just decide, "fuck this, time to shake the cosmic Etch-a-Sketch!" Or maybe, "fuck you, in particular". No control, no need for explainable reasons, just an almighty toddler whose temper tantrums mean death and destruction.

Yes, a universe without some sort of supernatural system playing backstop to death also sucks. It means that when you die you cease to exist. And that's terrifying. It also means that the only meaning in life is what you make of it. At the same time, I get to define my life and don't have to live according to some arbitrary supernatural definition either. That's a pretty good trade, I my view.

In the end, the rejection of the supernatural is both terrifying and freeing. You have to accept that there is no one out there helping you or that there will be anything on the other side of death. But, that frees you to make your life truly your own. You get to define your own purpose, without some huckster telling you that you are bad for enjoying the enjoyable things in life. Or some organization scaring you into giving up what you have earned, because their sky wizard can provide everything they need, except all the things they actually need.

Stop looking for someone else to tell you the propose of your life and instead realize that you are the purpose of your life.

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[โ€“] robber@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So your way is more accepting the unknown, than filling it with some sort of believe, if I understand it correctly? I'd say that's a take on spirituality as well.

[โ€“] statist43@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago

I do not really accept the unknown. Im lretty interested in how the universe works and what its made of. Why everything is happening and how it came all to start.

This brought me into studying chemistry.

I just dont thing there is a beeing, which made alll of this up. Just for us.

I mean there is trillions times trillions galaxies, and this number is still small in comparison to the real amount. All of this just for some kind of weird test of some weird carbon based structures, so after they die they can have all of what they want?

Something has to be behind all of this, but this human centric view of our universe definetly doesnt get it right. in my opinion.

[โ€“] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That's always been an odd argument to me, even when I was an atheist. No god worth their substance would need to interact with the universe in any way that didn't just look like the laws of physics, since they're the ones who initiated the laws of physics.

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[โ€“] Granixo@feddit.cl 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Speak not the Watchers.

Draw not the Watchers.

Write not the Watchers.

Sculpt not the Watchers.

Sing not the Watchers.

Call not the Watchers' name.

[โ€“] statist43@feddit.de 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[โ€“] Granixo@feddit.cl 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Drakengard. ๐Ÿ‰๐Ÿ”ฅ๐ŸŽฎ

More specifically the verses come from Drakengard 1 while the picture comes from Drakengard 3.

No "watch not the watchers"?

[โ€“] Pilokyoma@mujico.org 3 points 1 year ago

I am Catholic, I was born there, growing there, and then I became a real Catholic. For the scientific evidence you have. Fight against my many defects, with the help of God. Looking to reach the heaven, without going through the purgatory (preferably). I would not see it as finding support, but to seek the objective truth.

[โ€“] Saigonauticon@voltage.vn 3 points 1 year ago

I have been described as the least spiritual person various people have ever met. I think that's accurate. I just don't have a spiritual side.

Some people have treated me less than excellently as a result, with the notable exception of Buddhists (I immigrated to a predominantly Buddhist country).

I don't believe any of their stuff, I find a lot of it superficial and against the core principles they preach... and they don't seem to mind at all. I don't have to hide what I think -- I'm also free to discuss these matters (politely). Even with the monks.

Anyway, I'm a practical person. When the floods come, we fill sandbags together. I'm OK to volunteer at their events, and so on. The support is mutual and practical in nature.

None. I find them all so false and superficial, claiming to have all the answers but refusing to actually share any of them with the flock, saying "you must find the answers for yourself, trust in [religious whatever]." I'm like okay, so you're admitting that you are superfluous to the search for meaning. Got it. Bye.

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