this post was submitted on 20 Nov 2023
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[–] The_Picard_Maneuver@startrek.website 163 points 11 months ago (6 children)

Is this arguably anticompetitive and illegal?

[–] schwim@reddthat.com 42 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Nobody can even state that it's actually happening "for competitive browsers" as even Chrome users are reporting an unexplained lag/slowdown. At this point, it's just wild speculation and bandwagoning.

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[–] blackkn1ght@lemmy.dbzer0.com 163 points 11 months ago (2 children)

So Alphabet:

  • is the developer the most used browser (chrome) and its open source skeleton (chromium) on which most of all of the other browsers are based on (edge, brave etc)

  • has the most used video platform online, with no close second (unless you count porn, but i'd still argue its not close)

  • has the biggest share of devices relying on its platform worldwide (android)

  • has the most used search engine worldwide.

Alphabet has to be split up. Alphabet alone is deciding what shape internet will take in the future.

[–] HollandJim@lemmy.world 30 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

is the developer the most used browser (chrome) and its open source skeleton (chromium) on which most of all of the other browsers are based on (edge, brave etc)

Which was branched from Apple’s open Webkit base, but let’s all also forget about that.

They take the IP of others, spin it a bit and then block everyone. Burn them down.

[–] nixcamic@lemmy.world 51 points 11 months ago (8 children)

Acting like Apple didn't do the same thing with khtml to make WebKit.

[–] namingthingsiseasy@programming.dev 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

The inevitable fate of any useful software that's not GPL.

When will people learn???

Edit: Ironically, KHTML was originally LGPL. So modifications to KHTML were required to be open source by the license, but Chrome itself isn't required to be open source (at least as far as I understand it, I am not an expert here). Nevertheless, if it were stronger GPL, then it probably wouldn't have been impossible to write features like DRM in chrome. So I would have been a bit of an idiot to say that KHTML isn't GPL (because LGPL is a weaker version of GPL), but in effect, the outcome is the same - all because of that big fat L at the beginning.

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[–] DrQuint@lemm.ee 26 points 11 months ago (1 children)

All of those are meaningless peanuts versus

  • Owns the biggest (borderline only) web ad service in the world
[–] spartanatreyu@programming.dev 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

My long bet: The EU will force Google Search + Ads, to separate from Youtube within a decade.

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[–] casmael@lemm.ee 145 points 11 months ago (4 children)

It’s fucking incredible watching Google change from a fairly well-liked company into essentially fucking Comcast. Fucking incredible.

[–] ArtVandelay@lemmy.world 74 points 11 months ago

Unchecked capitalism is a real motherfucker ain't it?

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[–] Dirk@lemmy.ml 96 points 11 months ago

Again? I remember they did this years ago when releasing Chrome.

[–] teft@startrek.website 31 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The delay also does not trigger just once; it is reportedly triggered every time YouTube links are opened in a new tab.

This part got me yesterday as I was listening to music. I loaded a new video in a tab and the other tab waited 5 seconds. I thought I had paused it or something but nope, every time you load a new tab it delays all the other tabs by 5 seconds.

[–] Wes_Dev@lemmy.ml 29 points 11 months ago

This is the exact reason I don't trust anything hosted online. If it's something I want to enjoy more than once, I download it.

Companies hosting things online tend to become authoritarian dictators in all but name, which is their right as they own the services and hardware. But it almost always makes the end user experience shitty and overly complicated, or filled with spyware, or requires you give away your rights to privacy or lawsuit, etc..

So if there's a song or something that I like online, I'm downloading that and keeping it on my computer to listen to whenever I feel like it. I don't have the time or energy to play games with these greedy ass corporations.

And the ironic part is, that while they would absolutely froth the mouth about me doing this, they're the ones that drove me to it. It feels like an emotionally abusive relationship, are they keep making our just a man some gaslighting me, then getting angry when I fight back or tell them no.

[–] Something_Complex@lemmy.world 25 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

It it legal? I remember when China's tech giants started infighting and the party ended up dividing them and phorbiding them to do so.

They where creating tech exclusive for their devices and internally block all other out.

I just figured if we aren't doing it here there should be a reason. (Apple appart)

Edit:guys what I'm saying matters the orthographic mistakes can be easily attribute to my lack of interest in writing the proper queen's English when any shit will do

[–] pensivepangolin@lemmy.world 33 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I’m sorry to be the spelling guy but it’s “forbid” not “phorbid”

[–] Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works 22 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Do you have poor spelling fobia?

[–] fujiwood@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago

I’m sorry to be the spelling guy but it’s “phobia” not “fobia”

[–] Something_Complex@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

Hahaha ce la vi

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 21 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

If it's happening it's not doing so for everyone. I use Firefox and I have never seen this delay.

[–] PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world 27 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I haven’t experienced it either, but Google also typically rolls out changes in waves. They rarely just push to prod and call it a day. They push changes in waves, so they can pull the update or make adjustments if the early waves have issues.

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[–] digdilem@lemmy.ml 5 points 11 months ago

Same.

The anti-adblock warnings only lasted a few days for me too, not seen them for a couple of weeks now.

[–] Deebster@lemmy.ml 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I'd seen it in my Firefox/Win10 + uBlockO setup. I just used yt-dlp and then a uBlock "quick fixes" update sorted it.

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[–] j4k3@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Someone should investigate deeply. My combo of a whitelist firewall on an OpenWRT variant and Graphene often has a bandwidth issue that is clearly software related only after watching something from YT. I can stop the apps manually and close everything related to browsing and the connection issue still exists. I can disconnect the internet from my router and the problem still persists. However, if I shutdown all 3 devices for a few minutes and bring them up fresh, the network connection is flawless. Something is running in memory, and I believe it is related to YT, but I lack the skills to break it down further. I like to run an AI server and it is simply useless if anything on the network has connected to YT since booting.

I've also noticed when family is watching YT premium (not something I use) and I am downloading a LLM from HF, the internet bandwidth of our network more than doubles on my wired connection. In between the streaming packets from YT the speed on the download jumps massively. If family is watching YT, I can actually download a LLM faster. That just seems odd to me that those are connected.

[–] SnipingNinja@slrpnk.net 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Maybe your ISP has some sort of agreement with yt?

[–] j4k3@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

Does that seem legitimate to you? There are many more implications below the surface with this. Yes, YT has little black boxes that cache content locally with ISPs that also means they are likely filtering all data. I don't like that part, but I can live with it.

The idea that something is running on my device that seems to be hidden, but where I can stop the behavior by flushing the memory; that is extremely alarming. If I understand it correctly they have direct memory access for streaming video through h.264. Whatever they are doing is causing me to drop connections and impacting my WiFi signal stability even when offline doing tasks unrelated to YT. As soon as I reboot the problem is gone. I distrust them so much now that I do a hard reboot any time I watch YT. (It improves battery life as well.) This is criminal behavior if my speculative analysis is correct and they are running stuff like this in the background. I'm running a combo where I control every aspect of my network. This should not be happening in my circumstance.

[–] JWBananas@startrek.website 4 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Sometimes, less is more.

I would recommend trimming all your custom configuration from your router/firewall, one change at a time, until you can no longer reproduce the issue.

Or go the other way around: set up a barebones configuration, confirm the issue is resolved, and begin adding one customization at a time until it breaks.

How do your bufferbloat tests look?

https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat

It sounds like you have a lot of stateful inspection configured. YouTube's heavy usage of QUIC (i.e. UDP transport) may not play well with your config.

And, incidentally, what does your hardware look like?

Frankly, even the most barebones router should be able to handle YouTube. I am running pfSense in an ESXi VM, with passthru Intel gigabit NICs, 2 GB reserved RAM, and 2 vCPU (shared, but with higher priority than other VMs) on a Dell desktop with a second-gen i7 that was shipped from the factory in 2012.

Yes, I am routing on decade-old hardware. And I have never seen anything like what you are describing.

YouTube should "just work."

I am going to assume that if you're running OpenWRT, then you are probably using a typical consumer router? Please correct me if I am wrong.

Have you by any chance tried backing up your OpenWRT config and going back to stock firmware?

I know, I know, OpenWRT is great. I have a consumer router that I flashed with it to use strictly as a wireless AP.

But consumer devices flashed with vanilla OpenWRT tend to have very, very little resources left over to handle fun configurations.

And I have a feeling some of the fun configuration might be contributing to your issues.

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[–] BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago (2 children)

TBF I've seen a rare behavior in FF that makes some websites load slowly for no good reason (not an adblock thing). Anticompetitive either way but Google could be exploiting this bug.

[–] ColonelPanic@lemm.ee 4 points 11 months ago

I think you give them too much credit. From what I've seen, it's just a setTimeout call for 5 seconds if you're on Firefox, which is similar to what all those shady cookie popups from TrustArc do if you click "Reject all".

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[–] Auzy@beehaw.org 12 points 11 months ago (4 children)

The worst part is that a Youtube Premium Subscription costs more than Netflix or other streaming providers here in Australia.. And you're basically paying for ad removal of a metric ton of low quality content (and their music service, which isn't as good as others I found)

That being said, this might not be true (I've seen lots of BS online regarding browsers in the past)

[–] tias@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

And it doesn't remove promotions by the content creators, so you're still seeing lots of ads. Still, since my kids spend so much time on YouTube I think it's worth reducing the amount of brain washing, but I'm definitely not happy about the pricing. It's ridiculous when you compare it to other streaming services who also have to produce or license their content.

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[–] netchami@sh.itjust.works 11 points 11 months ago

Use Invidious or Piped in combination with LibRedirect in order to automatically redirect all YouTube links to Invidious or Piped.

[–] Anonymouse@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I post videos a few times a year to share events with family. I just posted a few yesterday. I can't in good faith continue to post to YT and encourage my family to use it as the platform declares war on their users.

But what else is there that allows me to post videos for free and my family can just watch them without having to install a new app, register for yet another service or configure some obscure plug in?

[–] unsaid0415@szmer.info 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Hop on a peertube instance. There are ones made by normal people, eg. https://urbanists.video (this one probably won't accept your registration, but just showcasing).

If you heavily compress your videos or if they're not very long, you could also upload a .mp4 file to a file host or just your own website (johndoe.com/myvid.mp4). Then the browser would just download and play the .mp4 file.

[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 4 points 11 months ago

Odysee fits the bill but be warned there are some conspiracy theorists nuts and nerds on there.

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 4 points 11 months ago

You could post the video to Dropbox or something? They might have to download the full video before playback, but i wouldn't be surprised if some file sharing services are smart enough to stream video.

[–] JaxiiRuff@pawb.social 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Been like this for a long time now. Both YT and YT Music are unusable on desktop due to the lag.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 20 points 11 months ago

Eh, works fine for me. I don't watch a ton of YouTube, but I haven't noticed any real issues, and I use an ad blocker.

[–] Sotuanduso@lemm.ee 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Decided to test it out myself on Firefox and Edge. Didn't get the delay, but did get ads both times because I don't have adblockers set up over there. The second was unskippable. Ugh.

[–] online@lemmy.ml 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I tested it in Firefox InPrivate, Edge, Brave, and Chrome and all are identical for me. I think they just fucked up YouTube. 😂

[–] Sotuanduso@lemm.ee 5 points 11 months ago

Could also just be a rolling release.

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