this post was submitted on 20 Nov 2023
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[–] SCB@lemmy.world 58 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Through the corporations they own, billionaires emit a million times more carbon than the average person. They tend to favour investments in heavily polluting industries, like fossil fuels.

This is not a billionaire's climate emissions.

[–] YeetPics@mander.xyz 43 points 11 months ago (7 children)

If the car I own tallies onto my carbon footprint, surely the corporations owned by the billionaires enjoy the same designation.

They're no different because of what they own.

[–] dangblingus@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

You would have to take a look at who the stakeholders are at each company. Corporate "ownership" isn't the same as sole proprietorship.

[–] girlfreddy@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

Did you read the article at all?

[–] YeetPics@mander.xyz 4 points 11 months ago

They all get to enjoy the responsibility (as they all shared the benefits).

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[–] AnonStoleMyPants@sopuli.xyz 4 points 11 months ago

But it does make a title that gets clicks.

[–] hh93@lemm.ee 3 points 11 months ago (6 children)

Yeah - at best they are morally responsible for not choosing to invest in something else but in the end as long as there's capitalism and people are creating demand for whatever polluting thing they procude someone else will step in

The Demand has to be slashed by making those products less profitable if the general public is not acting in their own interest because polluting is cheaper and more comfortable

Especially if people are just going directly to "eat the rich" after articles like this I really wonder what they think will happen if the oil-production is stopped completely from one day to the next? And that even assumes that noone will step up to continue the production - what if the state takes over the oil-company and spreads the emissions evenly among every citizen - would that solve the problem of climate change in their minds?

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

capitalism and people are creating demand for whatever polluting thing they procude someone else will step in

Capitalism is not why people like electricity, food, and entertainment. All of those things predate capitalism. The USSR contributed to climate change.

Anyone trying to make climate change a leftist issue is a moron. Every economic policy would contribute to climate change becaus every economic policy needs to guarantee heat, food, transport, etc.

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I think there’s one big difference here: the capital holding class has fought tooth and nail against making solutions viable. They’ve pushed pro fossil fuel propaganda into everything from our commutes to schools. They’ve fought against acknowledgement of the realities of climate change and done nothing to try to move towards a more sustainable future, instead choosing to invest in lobbying against solutions to reduce demand such as carbon taxes, reduction of oil subsidies, increases in clean energy subsidies, and mass transit.

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[–] yogsototh@programming.dev 19 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

I think the message that want to be passed by this article is probably pro-oil industry. It gives a false impression that we could tackle ecology not by changing our habits but just be mad at a few billionaires. And this is factually false.

Unlike wealth pollution is more equitably shared among people. Here in order to demultiply the calculated pollution of billionaires they introduced thier industry and the pollution of their employees somehow.

And while it is expected these people pollute more. Getting rid of them will not reduce the pollution as one could expect.

unfortunately everyone, even not the wealthiest will need to change how they live to have a visible impact on pollution. broadly speeking, not just CO2, as we have a lot more ecological problems than global warming. Note the focus on global warming alone is also a strategy to hide the real changes that need to ne made in order to prevent humanity to hurt itself too much by destroying its own ecosystem.

Edit: As I am being downvoted it looks people probably misunderstood my message. I would gladly get rid of super rich people. But while this would help, we would all still need to make efforts. Until we accept that we should change our way of life, we will not solve our balance with our ecosystem.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago

I think the message that want to be passed by this article is probably pro-oil industry.

It's not even that

They specifically say that the numbers wouldn't be this skewed if you didn't count their companies as their own personal emissions.

It's just a stupid article all around.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Cart before the horse. Get rid of the billionaires, then work on individual consumption. Some of us have been recycling and trying to save the environment most of our lives while Taylor Swift flies her private jet to Italy to get a gelato.

[–] Pipoca@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Billionaires generate obscene amounts of carbon pollution with their yachts and private jets – but this is dwarfed by the pollution caused by their investments,” said Oxfam International’s inequality policy adviser Alex Maitland.

Through the corporations they own, billionaires emit a million times more carbon than the average person. They tend to favour investments in heavily polluting industries, like fossil fuels.

Private jets aren't great, but they're objectively a tiny part of emissions. According to the EPA,

The largest sources of transportation greenhouse gas emissions in 2021 were light-duty trucks, which include sport utility vehicles, pickup trucks, and minivans (37%); medium- and heavy-duty trucks (23%); passenger cars (21%); commercial aircraft (7%); other aircraft (2%); pipelines (4%); ships and boats (3%); and rail (2%).

If we banned private jets, we'd decrease emissions by somewhere under 2%, assuming we're just banning the larger luxury private jets Taylor Swift is chauffered in, not the recreational 2-4 seat single prop aircraft that pilots own. Taylor Swift's jet was in the news for polluting as much as 1,184.8 average people. That's not equitable, but objectively it's a pretty small part of the problem.

Passenger vehicles are 58% of transportation emissions. If you include freight trucks, they're 83% of transportation emissions. Insisting on eliminating 2% of emissions before we even think about reducing 58% of emissions is the definition of putting the cart before the horse.

The problem with driving isn't with individual people deciding to drive instead of walking 2 hours to get groceries. It's the car-centric Euclidean zoning and sprawling (sub)urban design that makes driving the only practical option. If you can get the average person to drive 4% less by e.g. giving them a neighborhood pub they can bike to in 5 minutes, you've done more to decrease emissions than by grounding every private jet.

I mean, don't get me wrong - we can do both at the same time. But Taylor Swift's emissions are objectively more a matter of equity and optics than substance. You don't fix climate change by hyperfixating on eliminating 2% of emissions.

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[–] yogsototh@programming.dev 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I think we shouldn’t wait for the billionaires to disappear to make efforts.

Saying as long as billionaires are polluting I can still pollute as usual is simply dismissing our own responsibility.

Even though, I agree, billionaires should be the first to make the largest effort.

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[–] SCB@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago (19 children)

while Taylor Swift flies her private jet to Italy to get a gelato.

That would have a negligible impact on climate change

[–] mindfive@lemm.ee 4 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Almost everyone has a negligible impact when taken individually, that’s no excuse. Flying is terrible, private jets even more so.

[–] Pipoca@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Everyone has a negligible impact as an individual, yes.

But people act as groups, responding to the incentives given to them. There's a reason why the average person in Houston drives a lot more than the average person in Amsterdam. It's because Houston has the widest freeway in the world and is very car-oriented, and Amsterdam has world-class bike infrastructure and is very walkable and transitable. It's not because Amsterdam is filled with virtuous environmentalists while Houston is filled with evil people who hate the planet.

And as groups, people add up. In the US, 58% of transportation emissions are from cars, SUVs and pickups, while only 2% are from non- commercial planes. On the personal level, private jets are terrible. Added up to a societal level, they're a tiny part of the problem, while cars are a giant part of the problem.

[–] mindfive@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago

There are billions of us, we can look at more than one angle at a time. If we can’t all help on the issue du jour we should just pack it in?

Or let’s talk about how that air travel metric is likely bullshit. We barely do full lifecycle emissions for cars, do you think that metric did that for planes? Their tires? Their mandatory retirement duty cycle for all kinds of components up to their frames? They aren’t expensive as hell for the prestige of it.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (6 children)

All human air traffic combined is 2% of emissions. A private jet is not a big deal.

Calling out private jets from rich people is a conservative tactic to make wealthy people who advocate for climate policy look like hypocrites. It's a nonsensical position that was never intended to be thought through. It's a kneejerk slogan for the boomer hordes.

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[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

We all know the solution. It’s only 12 of them. It can’t be that difficult.

[–] Pasta4u@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

Can't wait to be rid of Taylor swift music

[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca 7 points 11 months ago

Good luck finding any resources to do a damn thing about it.

[–] veniasilente@lemm.ee 6 points 11 months ago

2.1 mili homes

I'm... quite sure they do worse than that.

[–] Aurelius@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'd be interested in knowing how much more emissions come specifically from private plane owners. Not just billionaires, but celebrities that use their planes to fly short distances

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Roughly 0%. The combined total of all air traffic, 6 million flyers every day, is about 2% of emissions

All private plane use is going to be a tiny percentage of that already small percentage.

[–] _haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago

That seems way too low...

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