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Ratios and amount are the most important thing in healthy eating. For reference, vegetables should be more than half your food intake, the rest split between whole-grain carbs and protein (either meat or plant based) in order to be healthy. And we need to pay attention to how much total food we eat too since our monkey brains that evolved under extreme food scarcity don't do a good job of moderating nutrient input.
No I can't keep myself to that either.
I know it's a shipost and this meme is at least 15 years old. But meat, cheese, and white bread (especially the ones in the US with added sugar) were never healthy
Specially processed meat, cheese and bread. In the case of fast food these ingredients are basically "hacked" to make us crave more and consume more. These industries have "food scientists" working on exactly that.
Meat, cheese and bread in their more natural form is definitely healthy when consumed in moderation.
Since when is meat unhealthy?
Although high in nutrients, the difficulty in digestion makes it a carciogen. Particularly red meat - bird and fish (pre omnipresent plastics and heavy metals) are relatively healthier.
That's sorta half the story. The official statement is that consistently eating more than 1.5lbs (500g) of red meat per week "probably" (their word) increases your cancer risk. The real story is that eating more than 50g of processed meat per week dramatically increases your cancer risk. To the extent that processed meat is ranked as a "Group 1" carcinogen.
Flip-side, grains and legumes have been tied to cancer as well. I can't find exactly what category, but they seem fairly convinced they are carcinogenic.
It is, sadly, like the California Cancer joke, where almost everything causes cancer if taken to excess.
Especially the US white bread which contains a carcinogen.
Take care not to make statements so inaccurate they are effectively meaningless.
"US white bread" isn't a singular brand and most brands don't "contain[s] a carcinogen"...
You never mentioned what the carcinogen was. Probably because it would compromise your argument that "US white bread" as a whole contains it when it does not. (It's Potassium Bromate/Bromide (it's used interchangeably online sometimes), for those wondering.)
It's not limited to white bread in where it can be used. It was an additive to flour in general.
A lot of the fear mongering blogs, written by 'influencers' whose research consists of 10 seconds of Googling but not verifying a single fucking thing they write about, name brands that contain potassium bromate... but actually don't. Example: Wonder bread (https://wonderbread.ca/our_products/white-bread-675g/) Chex Mix. Looking up their ingredients list shows the item in question is not used at all. https://www.chexmix.com/products/chex-mix-traditional/
TLDR: Think before you repeat vague, meaningless shit next time.
BTW, You should look into the horrors of Dihydrogen Monoxide.
My statement is far from meaningless. Mild carcinogens are still carcinogenic. Sure, a small dose as a one of will not cause problems short term, but long term build up is a thing.
Your link to Wonderbread is from Canada.
Chex Mix doesn't contain azodicarbonamide (I'm guessing this is the one we're talking about? I wouldn't be surprised if there are others), but it does use butylated hydroxytoluene, which is also classed as GRAS (Generally Recognised As Safe) by the FDA based on a study from 1979. Yet both chemicals have since been called into question for their links to cancer. From a cursory glance, azodicarbonamide has a more proven link, while butylated hydroxytoluene has yet to be properly studied and the link is questionable.
Too much dihydrogen monoxide can kill you.
Alcohol is also carcinogenic - more so than bread additives - but I'm definitely having some of that tonight.
Also, Joel Fuhrman had a podcast talk about lemmy's favourite, BEANS.
Edit: Bloody kbin users, breaking lemmy threads. Supposedly there's a comment underneath mine, but it won't load, and there's nothing on kbin.
meat, cheese and bread were never healthy, says a man descended from 10 thousand years of meat cheese and bread eaters
it's about the scale at which these items are consumed - eating meat every day was pretty much unheard of until the advent of capitalism
In some circumstances you’re absolutely right. In many parts of the word, meat was either scarce or difficult to preserve. In other parts of the word, some peoples survived almost exclusively on animal products. The natives on Alaska are the first that come to mind.
Of course “meat” was a very important part of their diet, they relied heavily on organ meats for their essential vitamins and nutrients. They were significantly more humane and less wasteful than we are today.
Was it capitalism or was it refrigeration?
There are hundreds of ways to preserve meat without a fridge
Fresh or preserved (salted or dried) meat has existed as long as people have paid for them. Even ice was used for a while prior to refrigeration.
Salting and dehydration is not as efficient as refrigeration. Not even close.
Proof you only have to live 15 years to reproduce doesn't mean much for someone wanting to live 80 years.
Nobody ate meat before very recently. And cheese was not your typical daily treat. Remembers it takes a long time to produce
Humans have been eating meat for at least two and a half million years.
But not in that quantity as we do today. In the past it was very special, because you allways had to kill one of your animals to eat some. And if you were a farmer who can decide to eat one big meal or ceep the animal and have milk for a long time its a preety easy decision.
And if you go back even more when humans were still "wild" meat was even harder to get. You had to hunt down an animal that was way stronger that you. So a hunt took days. If you got meat once every few weeks you were lucky.
Sure, nobody ate anything in the quantities that we eat today, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a crucial part of our diet. It's amazing that modern industrialized humans are able to get enough calories and protein from a diet of varied plants, but if you're a hunter gatherer you don't have the luxury of a variety of genetically modified protein rich plants, you need meat if you're going to grow. That's the niche we evolved to fill, it's why we have a highly acidic gut, a medium length digestive tract common in omnivores, and teeth designed to tear meat. It doesn't take a lot of meat to meet a person's protein requirements, the occasional successful hunt is enough, but without any they would die.
I am vegetarian for over 5 years. You realy don't need any meat. That just some public believe the meat companies planted in our heads. For a vegetarian lifestyle your don't even have to pay attention to a lot of stuff. In general it's way more healthy if you do it right. The only thing is that it's usually harder to cook something tasty, because you can just throw meat in anything and it tastes like something.
But what you're missing is that being vegetarian wouldn't be possible without the conveniences of our modern world. You're relying on plants that have been heavily modified to be more nutritious to humans, and you're relying on a variety that would have been difficult to find pre industrialization, and absolutely impossible to a hunter-gatherer. It's not meat company propaganda to realize that human's evolved to eat meat, it's evident in everything about our physiology. From an evolutionary point of view, even farming is startlingly recent, an industrial world economy hasn't even registered yet, so even though we're living in a modern world, we're still dealing with bodies that were built to hunt. That's why so many types of overeating are such big issues, this farmed abundance just isn't something that we evolved to deal with.
None of that takes away from the fact that vegetarianism is feasible and healthy today, I think that it's great that we've reached a point where we can survive without meat. All that I'm saying is that we need to recognize it for the modern luxury that it is, instead of saying that it was ever the norm
White bread, cheese (at least not the one on burgers) and red meat aren’t exactly known as healthy foods. Definitely not in the proportions of a burger. Even more definitely not when you boil the meat in oil (often together with the onions).
I always thought it was the proportions that weren't healty. You get 50% bread, 50% meat, with a tiny slice of lettuce in the middle.
I am extremely sure if you make a burger by yourself with good ingredients it will be just as healthy.
Beware of the added sugars in things that aren't supposed to have that much sugar.
Of course. The unhealthiness of food is an emergent property arising from the arrangement of their constituents components relative to each other. The next time you have a burger and want to be healthy, just take it apart! Taps head
In all seriousness, for anyone confused by this, whether or not something is healthy for you is all about quantities and ratios. Specifically, that of your diet as a whole, not of individual items. So while I don't agree with this sentiment, burgers can be considered unhealthy because:
Step one is to ask yourself what you think healthy means. Generally it's used as a catch-all by people to justify whatever shitty diet they have.
*calling meat, cheese, and bread healthy*
wow that food pyramid propaganda really did a number on you all didnt it.
Edit: im talking about the meat and dairy industies lobbying too, not just bread
Well, they sure have necessary nutrients
i love the greatest source of carcinogens in an average diet 🤤🤤
It seems odd putting meat in the same category as bread.
In terms of pure health, there's not much out there better than most meats. Yes, beef is a bit lower than pork and chicken, but properly portioned (looking at most of us Americans) it has very few downsides.
Bread on the other hand can be one of the worst foods we can eat. Of course, it is still all about moderation.
EDIT: Why the reddit-like downvotes folks? There's really no cohesive argument that puts meat below bread healthwise in most situations. If you want to avoid meat, avoid meat. If you want to be morally opposed to anyone eating meat, so be it. Facts are still facts and misinformation isn't the right way to fight that battle.
Bread can be healthy, just make sure it's wholegrain. Read meat is acosiates with bad health outcomes..
But yeah nobody is going to put a wholegrain bun on their hamburger.
I'm fat by nature (and environment) so I have examined and tried many diets, and I think I can only say for sure a few thing about healthiness of diets:
On the sugar note: Meat you buy in the store (for instance bacon) often have sugar additives. Better to visit the butcher.
Butchers won't save you from sugar in bacon, many bacon brine recipes call for sugar, but a butcher will be able to tell you what the bacon was pickled in
Raw, unprocessed meat (steak, chops, chicken) is generally fine
Ah didn't know that, thank you. I've just started to read the ingredients list on most of the products I buy from the store and realised I can't even buy ham or many other kinds of meat, because of the sugar additives that they syringe into it.
additives that they syringe into it.
It's usually only water they syringe into meat - so they can sell a 1.5kg leg of lamb as a 1.7kg ;) but only if your food supply is really badly regulated
The sugar in bacon is from the brine it is soaked in; in ham it's from the glaze it was coated in before it was sliced - the sugar on sliced ham is all in the edge
Salami might have sugar to promote fermentation
Glazed sliced ham? No I'm talking a bout a big piece of meat without glace. I'm not in the states though so might be different there.
Sliced ham is cut from the big piece. And you're right, aside from Christmas, ham isn't usually glazed. I guess there's sugar in the pot when the ham is cooked, so I think my advice is right - the sugar will not have penetrated far
I guess I haven't thought much about sugar in smallgoods, as it was within the 20g allowance on keto (even with a bowl of salad) and now I'm on "zero carb" I don't bother with ham because it doesn't have enough fat
I'm also not in the states, g'day from Australia
Yeah, I've never understood why burgers are unhealthy if beef, grain, and vegetables are healthy.
First of all there's a huge gap between home made hamburger and, well, anything else tbh. Actually, let's expand it, there's a huge difference between home made anything and any other kind of food, be it restaurant or assembly line made.
Backing up a little though, if you make a hamburger at home, with lean good quality beef that you grind up yourself or ask them to grind it for you at the counter, lots of veggies and very little oil, on a home made bun or on actual bread (the kind made with flour, water and salt, that's it), then it's quite healthy. Still wouldn't eat it more than once a week since red meat yada-yada, but still, not that bad.
What you get at a fast food though is very low quality meat with lots of fats, dipped in other fats, sugar and spices to mask the flavor, processed bread, processed cheese, very little veggies and, usually, a side of french fries and a soda, which are a meal onto themselves. Let's take McDonald's, looking at their website a quarter pounder is 500+ kCal, the medium fries are 300+ kCal and a medium coke is 200+ kCal. That's 1000+ kCal for a "meal" full of fats, sugar and processed food. Also it's a huge spike in insuline which will lead you to a huge crash just a few hours later leaving you hungry and craving for more.
Restaurants are also a bit guilty of this. They tend to add much more fats than you'd ever do at home in order to drastically improve the flavor of their dishes. Can't even fault them for it, if I wanted a bland healthy meal, I'd have eaten at home. If I'm going to the restaurant it's because I want a great tasting dish. Ready made meals you can get at a supermarket are also full of fats, vegetable oils and preservatives in order to mask the shitty flavor.
So at the end of the day I'd say the best thing is to avoid as much as possible processed foods, avoid all take outs and deliveries, go out to eat maximum once a week and cook all your meals yourself starting with simple ingredients. It's not that hard either and cooking can be fun.
Very helpful and interesting too!
I think it's because of the quality of the ingredients. If you make a burger with homegrown vegetables and high-quality meat it would be healthy
Replace meat with bean burger
Replace cheese with guacamole or other sauce
Replace white bread with whole grain bread
It's really only unhealthy if you're eating that every time you eat. And mostly what makes it unhealthy is the fat/lean ratio. Hamburgers usually use fattier hamburger. You can make them with leaner meat tho. They just don't taste nearly as good.