Funny how both studies focus on smoking though, it's almost as if inhaling smoke isn't healthy 🤯.
this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2023
32 points (58.8% liked)
News
23274 readers
3177 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
My biggest complaint with most cannabis research is the failure to subgroup results by delivery mechanism.
Do people that don't smoke at all but use oral cannabis have higher heart complication risks, and if so how much are they elevated compared to the norm and compared to the subgroups that smoke?
But no, it's usually just catchy headlines about "cannabis correlated with X" when I get the feeling many times it's really "smoking things correlated with X."
Study probably paid for by alcohol and police lobbies. Always villainise.
"Don't attribute to malice what you can attribute to incompetence."
Except when it's a study that completely ignores very obvious alternative causes for its outcome. In that case, it's reasonable to suspect malice.
I'm wondering about vaping and CBD/hemp too: I use a dry herb vape with hemp to quit smoking cigarettes. Works great but now I'm a little worried. My resting heart rate is 50 bpm and I get a decent amount of physical activity so hopefully I'm OK.
I heard vaping gives you wet popcorn lung and kills you faster than smoke.
/s
Also, drink alcohol it’s way better for you than marijyana
If you're vaping BHO extracted products/products with added terpenes, then you are doing damage to your lungs. Dry herb vaping and live rosin excluded.
You have to be so careful with the extraction methods and diluent agents when it comes to vaping concentrates (that includes regulated vape carts--not just black market carts).
[Cannabis] extracts are not diluted in propylene glycol or glycerol like nicotine due to their hydrophobic properties. Instead, various forms of oils including vegetable oils, terpenes, and tocopheryl acetate (vitamin E acetate) have been reported as diluents. In most reported cases of EVALI, additional flavoring additives are also added to products.
Although many of these diluent agents and flavorings have been “generally recognized as safe” for oral ingestion by the FDA, recent research shows that when heated to form an aerosol and inhaled, conditions including bronchitis, bronchiolitis, acute hypoxic respiratory distress, lipoid-associated pneumonia, and pneumonitis may result. [1]
The terpenes used in vape carts to dilute and reintroduce flavor and aroma (which is lost in some extraction methods, like BHO) also produces harmful byproducts when vaped. [2]
Another problem with cheap vape pens and e-cigs is the cheap atomizers/coils used. There have been confirmed cases of these coils/atomizers leeching heavy metals into the vapor produced.[3]
It's always important to consider the risk-mitigation approach, but a lot of people don't comprehend that not all vaping concentrates/methods are equal, and some should absolutely be avoided.
THC does cause heart distress, regardless of consumption method.
CBD should be fine.
Either are better than nicotine anyway.
Funny how both studies focus on smoking though
But it didn't and even says so.. I'd take this with a grain of salt. It's not very scientific IMO.
A limitation of the study is that it relied on data that did not specify whether the marijuana was inhaled or eaten. According to researchers, how marijuana is ingested may influence cardiovascular outcomes.
Important to note that the population of the study all had a history of cardiovascular health issues, and were not representative of the rest of the population.
Also important to note is the failure to assess a distinction between combustion and non-combustion consumption.
Combusting marijuana results in particulates, carcinogens [1], lack of oxygen, and off-gasses benzene. [2] These are very important factors to control for, and this distinction was not addressed at all.
Definitely in need of further studies on the topic. This is an interesting area to explore, but this study falls a little flat in addressing any causation.
First, fuck the shitty sellout who came up with the clickbait title. Smoking use was linked to those issues, not marijuana.
Second, are there any studies that show consuming edibles has negative effects?
And that is definitely not weed in the picture.
I'm on my phone so it's a pain to try and find the original studies, but I see that in one, they didn't account for smoking vs eating edibles, and the other seems to have mostly focused on smoking.
No surprise there. My first thought was that this was more correlation than causation - people who take cannabis are more likely to do a range of things that cause heart problems. But you may be onto something with smoking. Smoking breaks things down into all sorts of nasty carbon particulates.
Not that this rules out cannabis damage to the heart or brain, mind, but the phrase "more study is needed" cannot be emphasised enough.
In my experience ingestion route doesn't make a difference; smoked or eaten, marijuana definitely makes my heart beat significantly faster and more irregularly and spikes my blood pressure.
I stopped smoking after I got the 'rona, because it totally ratfucked my lung capacity, but I saw the same physiological effects either way (minus smoking-specific ones like coughing and lightheadedness).
And due to bad study design, this research will answer exactly 0 of these these very legitimate questions.
That sounds like an improper dosage issue to me, tbh. I only use a dry herb vape occasionally (maybe once every couple of days, sometimes I go weeks without it), but some strains with higher potency effect me like how you describe. However, I started getting super light strains (<10% THC) from the dispensary and it made a huge difference. Also, if I only take like one puff, I still get a relaxing buzz but none of that heart racing you speak of.
Anywho, worth considering.
Even if BPM is affected by non-combustion, it doesn't mean the carcinogens, particulates, lack of oxygen, and benzene from combustion couldn't play a key role in the cardiovascular health problems in the studies.
It definitely makes a difference.
Given the extensive research around smoking and heart health, a 'placebo' group that was regularly smoking wood chips in blunts (or any kind of burnt vegetation) would be expected to have heart complications.
That smoking isn't the only factor here is probable, but that it isn't a factor at all is extremely unlikely.
Which is why research really needs to break out subgroups based on delivery mechanism.
IMO, an elevated heart rate after smoking could be a result of some underlying form of anxiety as well. And some strains seem to aggravate the situation.
Yay! More bad science for click baity articles
All the new marijuana hate junk science articles will stop coming along in such numbers after Ohio's election. Just watch.
So does tobacco use. If people are going to use this study as a reason to ban marijuana, then shouldn't we ban tobacco as well?
Yes. From a medical standpoint tobacco is terrible, hence regulations make it more difficult to smoke all over the world.
The issue is that there are so many smokers, that they are a force to be reconned with.
If tobacco was introduced now, it would probably be on the same legal status as meth. Same with alcohol.
Uk just did today and your comment has made me realise cannabis will never be legalised in the uk
I stopped smoking entirely because I was worried about shit like this. I've moved on to edibles and feel sooo much better....but now this has me nervous. Is marijuana in general? Or smoking in particular?
Smoking, this is a pointless article and clickbait
Patients with cardiovascular health issues who smoke marijuana more likely to have heart health issues?
Given all of the things we as humans consume that are known to be bad for us, (here's looking at you processed sugar) I'm in the who fucking cares camp. Let me burn a doobie and be mellow. I am definitely not trying to live forever.
yeah pot might be a bit bad but its probably as bad as sugar and caffeine tbh
shit keeps getting studies and it keeps being harmless
sugar is literally legal cocaine its made the same way and produces the same effects and even looks the same, yet it tastes good so we cant regulate it.(or even honestly say how much is in our products in the US, EU nutrition facts r nice)
themessenger.com
As a person who has used pretty much daily since 1966 and who knows many others who have done the same it has not been my experience that people are having ANY health issues due to the use of cannabis. I spend my summers with a bunch of ancient musicians. We drink alcohol, smoke pot and play music most if not all are in good health and mentally capable. We are all in our 70s and 80s. Every year we lose someone but we have not been blaming cannabis for people dying in their 80s.
That's fair.
The other side of the coin is my ex-husband who rolled 14 joints every morning to take to work ... and he smoked every one of them by himself.
There are people who are addicted, sometimes because of massive trauma they faced as a child/youth.
It would be unethical to disregard a study that simply disagrees with your personal preference or experience.
I do not see this as the other side of the coin. I have been using pretty much daily since 1966 except for a 3 week tolerance break once a year. I use much more than your ex and have never considered myself an addict as cannabis is not in any way addictive. I have zero trouble quitting for 3 weeks every year.
It’s not surprising they had more health problems if they were consuming whenever is spilling out of the pill bottle in the thumbnail.
It looks like they got an eighth out of evidence lockers after 15 years and used that for the stock photo
Nah.
Just by doing a little sleuthing I found out some things that really point to this article being a bit more flawed than one might think.
From: https://themessenger.com/info/about-us
The Messenger launched in May 2023. It is owned by JAF Communications, Inc., a privately-owned American digital media company based in West Palm Beach with additional offices in New York and Washington, D.C. The company was founded by James Finkelstein, Chairman and CEO.
First; the news outlet breaking this story? It's new. Brand Spanking New. So new that not even Wikipedia would recognize this site as notable.
The Messenger was founded to champion balanced journalism in an era of bias, subjectivity, and misinformation. The Messenger offers thorough, objective, non-partisan, and timely news coverage of politics, business, health, technology, international affairs, sports, travel, and more.
A noble ethos; but they really haven't been around long enough to be able to assign a lean to their content yet. I think this is telling of their goals...to publish articles on topics that they feel are getting biased coverage.
From: https://professional.heart.org/en/meetings/scientific-sessions
Scientific Sessions 2023
Pre-Sessions Symposia & Early Career Day: November 10, 2023
Scientific Sessions: November 11–13, 2023
Hmm....
From the article: https://themessenger.com/health/marijuana-use-heart-attack-heart-failure-brain-issues
Published 11/06/23 09:08 PM ET|Updated 11/06/23 09:08 PM ET
HMMMMMmmmmm......
Yeah these dates don't match; and the author clearly did not attend this symposium to ask questions or do appropriate research on the matter.
From: https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/1006523 (Emphasis added)
In a secondary analysis, when coronary artery disease was added to the investigation, the risk of heart failure dropped from 34% to 27%, suggesting that coronary artery disease is a pathway through which daily marijuana use may lead to heart failure.
Hmmm. I'm beginning to suspect this study is still kind of a pre-print and it's not yet fully finished. Not to mention the issue that this is from a news release and lots of paraphrasing is probably at play here. If I'm understanding this correctly; the primary investigation did not even consider or take into account the effects of coronary artery disease nor would it appear that the study was crafted to screen for or account with people who already have coronary artery disease or similar problems or risk factors.
“Our results should encourage more researchers to study the use of marijuana to better understand its health implications, especially on cardiovascular risk,” Bene-Alhasan said. “We want to provide the population with high-quality information on marijuana use and to help inform policy decisions at the state level, to educate patients and to guide health care professionals.”
Hmmmmm. Do we have a bit of an agenda maybe? It's hard to say for certain; but it sounds like they actually do want to cast doubt on the issue with relatively weak scientific evidence.
The median participant age was 54 years; 60.9% of participants were female at birth; 70.7% self-identified as white adults; 21.8% were Black or African American adults; 4.2% were Asian adults; 2.2% were identified as more than one race/ethnicity; and 1.1% were from other races/ethnicities.
I see. So we have an outsized number of older participants; who are far more likely to be at risk for heart problems.
The study enrollment began in June 2016. Participants were followed from when they enrolled until June 2022, a maximum of approximately 4 years (45 months).
Ah. Yeah. If we have been paying attention to the four year period between 2016 and 2022, we note that had a pandemic during that period too; which I suspect might also be problematic.
In a second study, different researchers evaluated data from the 2019 National Inpatient Sample, the largest nationwide database of hospitalizations, to investigate whether hospital stays were complicated by a cardiovascular event, including heart attack, stroke, cardiac arrest or arrhythmia in patients who used marijuana. Researchers extracted records on adults older than age 65 years with cardiovascular risk factors who reported no tobacco use (cigarettes or other tobacco products). This group of patient records were then divided into two groups: marijuana users and non-marijuana users. The marijuana user’s hospital records were coded for cannabis use disorder which can vary from hospital to hospital.
Yep. Older adults. It feels like they carefully selected subjects and data that would support their conclusions. Obviously this was Not a randomized controlled trial, and it should not be treated like one.