wait wait a lady fucking died and they're getting away with simply enhanced signs??
this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2023
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Well the FDA says the caffeine content is safe for an adult.
For an average healthy adult. That's what the disclaimers are for, so that those who can't tolerate it will know about it.
And yes, insufficient warnings should have pretty harsh penalties precisely for this reason
True. As for penalties, some pragmatism is needed lest you create another “everything causes cancer in California” joke.
A warning that’s applied to everything will be ignored by everyone.
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The FDA also says brominated vegetable oil is safe for human consumption
So, the FDA isn't perfect, but they're reversing their stance based on evidence.
https://www.fda.gov/food/food-additives-petitions/brominated-vegetable-oil-bvo
BVO is added to a food for a specific purpose and is regulated by the FDA as a direct food additive. BVO is allowed for use in a small amount, not to exceed 15 parts per million, in the U.S. as a stabilizer for fruit flavoring used in beverages.
The FDA is working on a proposed rule to amend our regulations to remove the authorization of the use of BVO as a food ingredient. For more information, see the unified agenda.
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Putting up the sign now probably hurts them in a civil suit.
Model (USA) Rule of Evidence 407: Subsequent remedial measures are not admissible as evidence to prove negligence, culpable conduct, a defect in a product or its design, or a need for a warning or instruction.
But the court may admit this evidence for another purpose, such as impeachment or — if disputed — proving ownership, control, or the feasibility of precautionary measures
EDIT: I’m not looking up the contextualing comments that accompany the rule, but I will share what I remember from law school many years ago: this rule exists for public safety. You don’t want to penalize fixing a dangerous situation, regardless of the facts of any specific case.
This comment is completely correct. This rule would apply here.
But it does alleviate them from a second suit.
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Well this is like, how you do not eat things you are allergic too.
Why not just call it lemonade coffee or lemonade energy drink? Lemonade is not suppose to have caffeine.
"Charged" is definitely not enough.
Could be charged with anything, like fruit flavor, extra sugar, suggested max daily doses of caffeine for healthy individuals, ya know, anything.
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Whatever it is called with that kind of caffeine content you warning label it with listing of exactly how much caffeine it has. Well maybe unless it is named literally "coffee" and is plain brewed coffee and at that brewed coffee with the normal levels of caffeine coffee contains.
Ones frappe, whippazino also better have needed labels in cases, since given all they mix how the heck one is to know what exactly is the contents. Oh this is extra special "angry frappe" with double squared shot expresso, so exactly how much caffeine is that dear seller per one glass? I just thought you put chili in it or something to make it "angry", but has literally multiple times more caffeine content.
This is why all the energy drinks atleast where I live have the ever present "contains high amount of caffeine x mg/100ml".
You sell something like that as counter served item with no packaging label to read, well now your menu list must contains at minimum highlights. Something like "our special drunk (HC)" and then somewhere on the menu there reads "HC means high in caffeine". Then obviously at the counter must be a full labeling booklet of "here is our every product from the plainest brewed coffee to our jumbo mega sandwich and special brew beverage with full nutritional information and ingredients"
Just like one can't sell say a pastry in cafe with nut creme filling with out having a big marker on all the menus "contains nuts, nut allergies bevare". Since similarly nut allergic consuming nuts can be life threatening, well for some people consuming caffeine isn't healthy and must be disclosed.
Whatever it is called with that kind of caffeine content you warning label it with listing of exactly how much caffeine it has.
They have always had signage directly on the dispenser with the caffeine content.
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This is a product made by Panera Bread? Lol I would not expect the store brand lemonade to be jacked on caffeine.
That was my exact same thought. Like, I had no idea they had a caffeinated lemonade, let alone a lemonade that was a beverage version of an energy pill they sell behind the counter at the gas station.
Probably some executive's nephew or something invented it. Absolutely a stupid idea.
Nah caffeine is flavorless and addictive. You mix it in with water and a patented combination of flavors and corn syrup, and the customers just keep coming back for it.
Selling an exclusive and addictive product is a good way to gain repeat customers.
Hell serious caffeine addicts will see this headline and plan to head to Panera at some point this week to check it out. No different than when heroin gets cut with fentanyl. Maybe somebody dies, but more junkies just want to chase that high.
I've always wondered why caffeine pills don't do better if that's the goal. I think it's more about the drink, not caffeine.
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My kids went and filled their cups with this stuff before I noticed what it was and then had to be the bad guy, telling them to get the Minute Maid shite. Definitely lowered my opinion of Panera.
Is the stuff just in the soda fountain?
Separate dispensers like they said, but if you're paying the meal and you tell the kids to go get their drinks and they want lemonade you have to watch out they don't get the heart attack shit. Once you know you know, but I couldn't believe that's a thing that exists.
I'm shocked it took this long. The caffeine content in that shit is MIND BLOWING. When you buy a energy drink you know what you are signing up for. But a lemonade with 260 to 390mg of caffeine??? That's pushing the limit of a ~~healthy~~ safe daily dose for an average adult
That's about the same as a large coffee, but nobody blinks an eye at that. https://www.cspinet.org/caffeine-chart
Because then people know what they're getting. That's why. She wouldn't have bought a large coffee like that
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What is going to come from this is Panera settles, and then sticks the charged lemonade behind the counter and enhances warning labels.
What may indirectly come from this is Solid Numbers on Caffeine overdose. and what is a safe amount and what is playing with fire.
It's a modern day created problem. energy drinks flood the market, other companies compete and boom, someone died. I've seen reports that she had some medical issues and caffeine was like her version of a bee sting or peanut allergy , but I've yet to corroborate that narrative.
Funny. We've actually been doing the same thing with salt and sugar for decades.
But overconsuming those doesn't usually result in an immediate death. Just diabetes and stroke.
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I figured it had more caffeine than tea but less than coffee. Clearly very wrong. Glad I didn't drink this stuff while I was pregnant.
Is this lawsuit gonna drive the price of sandwiches from $15 to $30? /s
They'll just make their bread even more stale and give you even smaller sandwiches for the exorbitant price.
Now the sales for that drink is going to go up, due to human curiosity.
I definitely want some caffeinated lemonade
There's caffeinated lemonade and then there's '10 mg away from the maximum daily recommendation of caffeine' lemonade.
You can order a smaller size if you're worried. The lemonade isn't particularly highly caffeinated, it's the cup size that is excessive. The lemonade is 13mg/oz, an average coffee is 12mg/oz which means a lot of coffees are higher, such as Starbucks coffee at 20mg/oz. Espresso is 50 and "energy shots" ten times that.
I definitely think labeling should be more explicit on presence of caffeine across the board (not just tiny text on a container). A limitation of size to 16oz (half the current size, same as a grande at SB) would also avoid the "supersize" effect here. But the lemonade itself isn't really the issue imo.
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Who'd have thought a place that can't even make a bagel with cream cheese properly would be the one to turbo-charge the lemonade.
Seriously, once I decided to get one and they gave me an uncut bagel and little shitty single-serve cream cheese. Even I asked wtf and said I wanted it done they looked at me as if I were from friggin outer space.
Pretty sure it's normal to put your own cream cheese on... But it would have been nice if they'd at least cut the bagel, I guess.
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I'd like to point out the irony that these enhanced warnings are a tiny sign that will easily be missed if you ignore the MASSIVE signage and marketing that remind the consumer that the beverages are caffeinated.
The silly part is that "see, it's a WAaaaarrrrning" might hold more protective weight in court than "HEY LOOK WE GOT A FUCKTON OF CAFFEINE" billboards.
(not so) fun fact: they put it where they normally place non caffeinated drinks
I wonder how the doctors knew that she had this lemonade and pinned it as the sole cause of her death vs anything else that could have caused it or as a combination of things since she had a condition already - the legal discussion of this in the lawsuit could be very relevant for panera
She knew she had the condition and avoided high caffeine drinks.
She did not know about the caffeine content, 390mg in the large lemonade, due to poor labeling by Panera. This one drink is 10mg less than the maximum daily dose for HEALTHY person according to the FDA.
Given the lack of consuming any other caffeine products regularly due to her knowing about their impact on her heart, it is not a leap to say the lemonade was the culprit.
Further, the lawsuit alleges harm, even if not the sole cause of death, from their product due to not making it clear to the buyer that contents has so much caffeine.
According to coffeechemistry.com, one liquid ounce of espresso can have anywhere between 30 and 50mg of caffeine. That means that a double shot will likely have anywhere between 60 and 100mg.
She bought a lemonade, without caffeine labeling, that contained 8 shots of espresso in caffeine. Cause of death or not, the legal culpability and reasonable expectation that this would not be in its contents is clear as day.
This will never go to trial.
I know nothing about this lawsuit but if she ordered this from a delivery app then there would be zero indication during purchasing that it is caffeinated
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