this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2023
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No Stupid Questions

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I mean there's Reddit ofc, as well as Twitter in its entirety, Discord is implementing some dumb updates, there are issues with Tumblr as well as everything to do with Meta, and I'm sure there are plenty more (and I haven't even touched other digital media, for example the Sims). Why is it all happening in the span of about a couple months?

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[–] Llamajockey@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Late stage capitalism You make a business and it goes well, you make some money everyone is happy.

But with time your profits will plateau or even decline. It's natural, but businesses don't understand that it is insane to expect a company to always turn crazy profits when the product does not evolve.

Companies like apple and Microsoft don't worry as much because they are constantly evolving with new product.

Companies like Twitter, Facebook, reddit, Netflix have hit a wall where there really isn't anywhere else to go so they start making shareholder centered decisions made by people who aren't even in touch with the user base of their product.

[–] dragontamer@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's the money.

US Fed has raised interest rates, destroying money for the first time in decades in an effort to stop our inflation problem

The knock on effects is that banks literally have less money to lend to companies. Some companies are affected more than others by this environment. Tech was hit hard, extremely hard.

With hundreds of thousands of layoffs, tech industry is contracting. Silicon Valley bank literally evaporated in the span of 3 days. Twitter was losing money and had to sell out. StackOverflow is losing money and is currently selling out.

In this environment, Reddit is about to launch it's long awaited IPO, the time when the public is allowed to directly buy Reddit stock and invest into the company. That's what Initial Public Offering means. If Reddit does well, Reddit will pull in lots of money this year through this IPO.

The CEO of Reddit needs to prove Reddit is profitable, or if not profitable... Will eventually be profitable. Stockholders don't care about Reddit drama for the most part, but most are smart enough to read financial sheets. Reddit needs to show growing revenue, growing profits and cutting costs to attract money.

As such, all of what Reddit's CEO has done makes sense in the context of the IPO. He is betting that shareholders won't notice the drop of high quality content creators from Reddit, since that's not a financial number that's reported. He can IPO, raising millions, maybe even billions for himself. The golden parachute outta here when everything gets screwed up in a year or two and collapses.

I think today's investors are smarter though, and the bearish economy and high interest rates means more investors will pay attention to underlying issues.

[–] merpthebirb@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 year ago

Yeah, investors are going to be even more inclined to identify exactly why the platform might be successful in the future. They’re not going to blindly throw money at new IPOs (as much) because debt isn’t free anymore.

[–] aragon@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Lets take the example of Reddit. Reddit could have kept its costs to the minimum and could have run the site with the ad revenue that came in. In fact they could have talked transparently about their opex and asked for a simple donation drive every now and then like Wikipedia. If need be, they could have removed silly GIF replies and other stuff and focused on text alone. However this would not let them become the next Facebook. That's what they wanted to be. At some point in their story was a choice to be forums 2.0 or get into a race to become a cash grab. Sadly they went for the latter.

[–] Gargleblaster@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

n fact they could have talked transparently about their opex and asked for a simple donation drive every now and then like Wikipedia.

Let's remember this about Kbin and the Fediverse.

I would donate to help counterbalance the wave of migration that brought me here.

[–] Kir@feddit.it 1 points 1 year ago

Economy is going bad, interest rate are up, and all Silicon Valley's company are built upon VC loans and expansion goals. Scale economy is bound to fail, and it's happening now.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 points 8 months ago

Start making alternatives, open source alternatives.

[–] gi1242@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

What were the bad decisions discord is making? Im out of the loop

[–] stephfinitely@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Because of capitalism, no seriously these decisions are based on money and growth. But both of these things are relatively finite. You can't keep have exponential growth year after year. Eventually you will plateau but there isnt a mechanism in capitalism to accept that. So companies start forcing monetary gain.

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[–] got2best@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I think the free money train in leaving the station and everyone is scrambling to be profitable. But that's just an assumption based on twitch and Reddit right now.

[–] schaffertom@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago

Cory Doctorow has some very interesting blogposts on the topic. He call it enshittification. It's more or less the business model of plattform Capitalism.

[–] deaf_fish@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago
[–] Mpeach45@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Because easy money from a decade of low interest rates is disappearing.

[–] azurestrike@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

A lot of these companies have never been profitable and have been running on VC money on speculation alone until they reach critical mass and can turn on the monetization streams.

[–] sourcery@lemmy.one 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Search for 'Enshittification' if you want a pretty good analysis of what's going on. But basically greed, capitalism and the never ending pursuit of growth.

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[–] boonhet@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Reddit, Twitter, etc, have been running at a loss for ages, burning through vulture capitalist money to build up a solid userbase. Now they need to start turning a reliable profit, which means enshittification of the user experience to make more money per user.

[–] Noedel@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

And the worst bit it even happens to non free platforms.

Like Spotify pushing a TikTok style interface, and ramming my home screen full of things I don't care about. Like, you've known me for a decade you should know I'm not into drake and podcasts by conservative men.

[–] wrath-sedan@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

As a phenomenon you'll see a lot of people call it "enshittification." The term seems to originate with Cory Doctorow who writes, "Here is how platforms die: first, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die."

The whole article on his blog is worth a read here: https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys. His Mastodon handle is @pluralistic if you'd like to follow his work there (woohoo federation!).

[–] discodoubloon@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Reductivist, boring, and accurate. I’m impressed

[–] Xeelee@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The main sticking point is profitability. Not many platforms have managed to create a business model that's sustainably profitable. Reddit certainly hasn't. Now they're basically looking for a way to cash out so they're prioritising short term profitability over everything.

[–] aeternum@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

They're just trying to survive until they IPO. Then they can cash out and who gives a fuck about reddit after that.

[–] aeternum@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What are the dumb updates discord is doing? I haven't noticed anything different, except for the username change that doesn't have a gamertag anymore.

[–] VoidCrow@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There is also that weird hidden alternate layout that is an ungodly eyesore (I think it can be accessed either in the settings or if you double click the sparkle emoji for some reason?) Admittedly I'm not as familiar with Discord's issues, mainly heard others talking about it

[–] ReCursing@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

New layout? I've seen no hint of that and I use discord all the time

[–] warboyziri@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] fossilesque@mander.xyz 1 points 1 year ago

Digital Sharecropping:

"What’s being concentrated, in other words, is not content but the economic value of content. MySpace, Facebook, and many other businesses have realized that they can give away the tools of production but maintain ownership over the resulting products. One of the fundamental economic characteristics of Web 2.0 is the distribution of production into the hands of the many and the concentration of the economic rewards into the hands of the few. It’s a sharecropping system, but the sharecroppers are generally happy because their interest lies in self-expression or socializing, not in making money, and, besides, the economic value of each of their individual contributions is trivial. It’s only by aggregating those contributions on a massive scale – on a web scale – that the business becomes lucrative. To put it a different way, the sharecroppers operate happily in an attention economy while their overseers operate happily in a cash economy. In this view, the attention economy does not operate separately from the cash economy; it’s simply a means of creating cheap inputs for the cash economy."

https://www.roughtype.com/?p=634

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharecropping

[–] Noedel@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think also we've become so dependent that they can just do whatever the fuck they want.

I've lived in a bunch of countries and FB messenger is the only way for me to keep in touch. FB can do whatever they want to me because I'm never going to persuade a bunch of people to all move to signal or something.

Reddit has communities that simply don't exist on any other platform.

They have the critical mass.

[–] dystop@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

It's basically the lifecycle of any big corporation.

When the industry is new and there's tons of new users to reach, everyone tries to be the most friendly corporation to build a name for themselves. Positive press and the halo effect helps bring in more people.

Once an industry matures and growth slows, the focus shifts to nickle-and-diming customers to squeeze more profit out of them.

[–] wildeaboutoskar@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I was going to say that I wish there was a decentralised way of sending messages... And then I remembered text messaging is a thing.

Incredible how quickly these things become embedded in everyday life

[–] Noedel@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Unfortunately this doesn't really work with international mates

[–] AshenPaladin@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't know honestly, greed probably. But it's such a shame. It seems like the internet as a whole is heading in a horrible direction, and not enough people care about it for there to be something done about it.

[–] emptyother@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The climate is heading in a horrible direction, and not enough people care. Politics are heading in a horrible direction, and you know what? Not enough people care!

Sorry, the last 4 years has made me very cynical. And I'm in a particularly blue mood today.

[–] RomeCallen@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

dude i feel that. its just lame and hard to grip with

its like i wish almost that i didnt care

[–] FloatingBye@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Capital only looks out for itself. Online communities are a product to be exploited in the eyes of investors. The purse strings are getting tighter with rising interest rates, and investments that relied on potential are suddenly less exciting when the price to service goes up. Profit is king at the end of the day. It sucks, but that's capitalism.

[–] TempleSquare@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But the good news is, tech is a highly disruptable industry. Barrier to entry is accessible for regular people.

And that's why we're here.

Reddit doesn't die because we left. They die in a few years when the Fediverse just works better than Reddit. And we fund that.

Speaking of, how do I kick in a few bucks to help out various Lemmy servers? Anyone know?

[–] RedditExodus@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I was able to donate to Ernest who runs kbin. I can't find the link at the moment but it is floating around here somewhere.

[–] RomeCallen@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

its the little heart at the top of at least lemmy.world

[–] clutchmatic@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

This is the consequence of the fed raising interest rates and companies finding it much harder to find money to pay salaries and operating costs. So companies have to actually seek profit or go bust and CEOs and board of directors are getting desperate and showing how little they understand what makes their products great.

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[–] lpslucasps@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Because capitalism, that's why.

[–] StagYeti@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't think there was ever any illusion that reddit or Twitter were operating as charitable organizations, or even as non-profits.

[–] doublejay3000@feddit.uk 1 points 1 year ago

OPs question suggests there was at least some illusion !

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