I like how Americans are treated like some special class. As if the US hasn’t had collateral damage in their attacks that harm citizens of other countries. The US just uses it as a very weak reason to get more involved…
this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
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Germany, France and Spain also have killed and kidnapped citizens. Their newspapers are reporting similar stories on their citizens, which is the reason the EU froze all the humanitarian aid to Palestine.
And those numbers will go up. All those hostages are not Israeli
Like the WTC this is truly an international incident.
Germany, France and Spain also have killed and kidnapped citizens.
You may wish to rephrase that...
It's technically true either way, but yeah that doesn't read well and definitely wasn't the intent.
I agree, it is technically true. Sorry if I sounded too nitpicking, I've just come back from a week with no internet access /news so for a moment I thought you were talking about all of them doing it during the events of the last few days!
Maybe don't go on vacation in an apartheid state?
Really, victim blaming?
Get out of here with that low quality crap.
What's low quality is using misapplied therapy speak to try to shut down a conversation.
It's not victim blaming. It's a fucking war zone. There are US citizens in Palestine right now stealing Palestinian houses. How are the Palestinians supposed to know who's who? Stay the fuck out of the active war zone if you don't belong there. It's not like the Palestinians who don't have a choice, people on vacation 100% had a choice.
"ViCTiM bLAmINg". The victims are the Palestinians. Get the fuck outa here.
Sure that's a reason to kidnap kids. Congrats
If the vacation is taxed then isn't the vacationer effectively funding the apartheid state?
Really? They deserved it? That's what you got?
Do children deserve it? no. Did the parents of those children put them in that situation? yes.
But tell me, where do you draw the line? Murder is bad but funding a murderous government isn't? How many steps do you have to be from the hitman before your conscious is clear?
And are you seriously out here pulling a "think of the children" as if an apartheid state is just super cool and nice to children? Do you need to refresh yourself on what apartheid means? I'll wait
Edit: OP never comes back to explain why murdering 1 Israeli child is worse than murdering thousands of Palestinian children. They don't have an answer, they have talking points.
Barbaric terrorism, raping, murder, mutilation, parading dead bodies down the street, can not be justified by anything. Sorry for you if you think differently.
You're literally doing it right now. You fully acknowledge that Israel is an apartheid state but you're not acknowledging anything they've done wrong.
For the people who don't get it, Israel was established in the 40's when the US and British took the land from the native Palestinians and created Israel as a state for the jewish people. This isn't ancient history. Some of your grandparents are older than Israel.
Israel exists on stolen land and their goal is fully destroy Palestine. It's as black and white as can be. It's murder. It's very nearly genocide. But the US is cool with it because we use them as a FOB.
Rapid here is defending murder. The recent actions of Palestine are, an admittedly gross but justified, self defense.
Edit: moved a comma
I do acknowledge that what Isreal does is oppression of Palestinians. I also acknowledge that what Hamas did last weekend was nasty and barbaric. Something you can't seem to do and I feel sorry for you.
Something you can’t seem to do and I feel sorry for you.
Lol weak. Dude I literally just said it was "gross" you can't immediately come back and say that I "can't admit that it was nasty". Gross and nasty are literally synonyms.
Can you pause for like 2 seconds and realize that you've become so lost in "winning" this argument that you've reduced yourself to spouting literal nonsense?
And that goes double for whoever upvoted you.
So, it's me and anyone that agrees with me? Whatever rings your bell, my friend.
I wouldn't say "agree". I don't think it's possible to "agree" with a non-sequitur. Like... by definition I don't think thats possible.
Generally when you upvote something because it agrees with your side regardless of the correctness that is a form of "circle-jerking".
Except the EU backtracked. It's like everyone on here is salivating at the thought of more dead Palestinians, as if they haven't suffered enough under apartheid.
EU paused development aid, but continues on humanitarian aid iirc
I’m still waiting for justice for Palestinian-American journalist Shireen Abu Akleh — the investigation of which currently rests in the hands of her perpetrators. It seems to me that recognizing American deaths only matters when it benefits US foreign policy.
So justice can be sought through slaughtering innocents? Bin Laden thought the same thing.
Let’s study the conflict before making such comments.
I am not aware of any conflict in US history where the US did not defend an American journalist dying performing their duty abroad. This is a war crime, and it sets precedent for Americans when they travel or work abroad anywhere in the world.
Hamas is not representative of all Palestinians. Hamas’ attack is a reaction to a 75 year history of tit-for-tat where “Israel” continuously breaks international law including murdering of civilians, the international community condemns them, and the big world powers like the US give them impunity. Like Russia to Ukraine, Israel is an occupying force of the Palestinians — the longest in modern history.
Comparison to Bid Laden is a false equivalence.
NO it isn't. Its the truth. The moment you think that justice can be had by slaughtering innocents you are buying into terrorism. It didn't work out for bin Laden in the end, and it won't work out for Hamas.
You reacted to me but you didn't listen to me.
Both "sides" have employed justice by "slaughtering innocents" in response to the other side. Both sides think what the other side did was reprehensible and deserving of retaliation. This pattern has been going on for 75 years. It clearly hasn't worked, so maybe we should try something different?
It's a both sides do it type argument....
And you seem to be suggesting that Israel should now invade - which will mean slaughtering and displacing and injuring innocents as well as Hamas members - because Hamas slaughtered innocents. People have and will die for things Hamas did that they had nothing to do with. This is a "Hamas did it, therefore it's fine or even morally right for Israel to do it" argument.
Which is the sort of revenge-first argument that will inevitably just fuel the same argument going back the other direction, and around we all go again, and innocents keep dying the entire time.
There won't be any stopping the cycle of violence while the root issues that caused it in the first place - the Nakba displacement and slaughter of Palestinians from their homeland, and Israel's subsequent apartheid government and occupation - is acknowledged and addressed.
However and whenever it stops, there will be people who did evil who will go free. Just like there were low-level Nazis and people who helped put the Nazis in power who went consequence-free when WWII ended. It's a legistic impossibility to deliver perfect justice to ever evildoer. If we make that the goal and try anyway, then all we get is more evil-doing, more revenge-seeking, more blood, and no real ultimate justice to show for it.
So, in my opinion, achieving peace, an end to systemic injustices, and compensating victims as much as possible (e.g. making sure the families of those lost on both sides have food, shelter, safety and education), should take predecence far above and beyond making sure everyone who deserves punishment is punished.
Especially since history's previous examples of invading a country to stamp out a terrorist organization (cough cough Afghanistan...) didn't exactly work to end the target organization, let alone the terrorism and violence and so on in yhe region as a whole.
My my. Israel has a right to defend itself, and from a citizen's standpoint, a duty. As to your last paragraph of this diatribe, do you see Al Queida around anymore?
It's clearly working out for the IOF: No Justification for Israel to Shoot Protesters with Live Ammunition
Like this hasn't happened before in history. Jallianwala Bagh Massacre. Yet the Indians did not contemplate killing British infants in their cribs and calling it justified.
How many where killed by fellow Americans here on the same day? I have trouble being appalled at 9 dead there when so many dead here merit no action from our politicians.
You can be appalled at both at the same time.
i wonder how many of those 9 american were also having Israel citizenship.
Both US and Israel recognize dual citizenship.
Well ...the tables would turn if we put American kids in their schools.