this post was submitted on 06 Aug 2023
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The Agora

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[Discussion] - SJW Rammy Statement (sh.itjust.works)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by TheDude@sh.itjust.works to c/agora@sh.itjust.works
27 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Please share your thoughts, concerns and opinions. Try to keep it constructive.

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[–] Barbarian@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I think this is the perfect issue to use as a springboard for the discussion and possible creation of a federation policy that TheDude can refer to in order to better navigate decisions, and we can influence the specific instances via changes to the policy. As a first stab at this, I'll reference the federation policy originally written by @captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works here. I have made some slight tweaks to the original that I feel capture the spirit, while simplifying it. I have included references to Canadian law, as that's where the server physically is and thus it makes the most sense to use Canadian law as the reference.

Admins of sh.itjust.works may defederate with another instance when that instance:
  1. is experiencing technical difficulties that impact the functioning of sh.itjust.works
  2. is host to a large number of bot accounts that generate unwanted/disruptive traffic
  3. is currently without administration due to credential theft, lack of time/interest, or any other reason causing the instance to be unmoderated.

Defederations done for these reasons must be immediately reverted once the admins are made aware that the underlying issue is resolved.

Admins of sh.itjust.works must defederate with another instance immediately when that instance:
  1. is operated for the purpose of posting commercial advertisements to other instances.
  2. does not remove in a timely manner posts considered illegal under Canadian law, including but not limited to child pornography, hate speech, hate propaganda (advocation and/or promotion of genocide).
  3. ~~is operated primarily for the purpose of political extremism/radicalization to include rampant bigotry, racism, sexism, calls to violence.~~

EDIT: On further reflection and reading, I'm unsure of my 3rd point there about political extremism, as that's very subjective. I'm unsure if it's even needed, as bigotry, racism, sexism and calls to violence are all adequately covered under Canada's hate speech laws.

is host to a large number of bot accounts that generate unwanted/disruptive traffic

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Fun fact: My original was written in a hurry so I could run out to the grocery store before it closed, so please consider it a rough draft to be improved upon.

"is host to a large number of bot accounts" I think needs a little more context.

Awhile ago my All New feed was clogged with nearly identical bot posts to nearly identical communities somewhere out on the fediverse. Someone had created a community for every team in some sports ball league, and had set up bots for each that posted game scores/results for each. While it's very bot spammy, I think it is legitimate traffic that does not warrant defederation. This is a perhaps inelegant example of what bots are for.

How about "is host to a large number of bot accounts that generate unwanted/disruptive traffic"

[–] Barbarian@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago

Thanks, edited!

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago

I 100% agree. I also think point 3 should be time boxed, as in give the admin 3 days or something to respond, after which it'll be defederated, but it could also be defederated if it meets another criteria in the meantime.

[–] RunAwayFrog@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago

Defederation questions/requests should be made in private, at least initially. That is to avoid turning an instance, which may temporarily not be actively administered/moderated, into a hotbed of illegal posting.

As it stands, any concern troll can turn a random small instance, which may not have an admin around for two days or three, into a hotbed of illegal or potentially-illegal activity, simply by bringing attention to it with a public defederation request.

Even with the presumption of genuine concern, the effect and end result will be the same.

[–] WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago

I was coming to make the [Discussion] Defederate Rammy post anyways as the drama seemed to be blowing up, thanks for saving us the trouble.

Love the ideas I keep seeing to adopt a defederation policy so you all don't get called authoritarians everytime you have to defederate from an unmoderated instance quickly.

[–] Goldmage263@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago

Seems like a good plan while their content is unmoderated. Appreciate your monitoring of the situation TheDude.

[–] CookieJarObserver@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Rammy.site seems to be behind a TOR Encryption (yes i used a ip grabbing tool) or at least that's what its normally like when evry ip locator gets a different continent...

2023-08-04 20:17:08 UTC

144.172.73.16

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/102.0

https://rammy.site/

2023-08-04 20:17:15 UTC

144.172.73.16

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/102.0

https://rammy.site/

Anyway, yes block it unmoderated stuff is bad and will likely cause problems, legal problems if it goes especially bad.

Btw found the hoster, its a German Company :/

[–] jediToru@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Will the users be able to block instances in the future? The whole defederation doesn't sit right with me but neither is the hate on that instance okay. But shouldn't the user be the one who should be doing this in the first place, for the overall health of fediverse

[–] cyborganism@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think some apps allow you to do this.

[–] Quexotic@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago

Solid move The dude. That's, like, my opinion, man.

[–] Zeppo@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Good call. Seems like a fairly straightforward decision as here and Lemmy.world defederated from exploding heads, and the person posting inflammatory content on rammy is literally the exact same person from exploding heads.

[–] floatingcloudsoverdawnskies@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Who is he and why is he doing it? Does anyone know?

[–] Zeppo@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Seems to be basically a 4chan edgelord type of person.

[–] floatingcloudsoverdawnskies@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What was he even posting?

[–] Zeppo@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

from what I saw, racist and anti-LGBT memes that were supposed to be humorous but obviously were offensive and not very funny, as well as that one style of manipulative right wing news - Breitbart style I guess.

[–] floatingcloudsoverdawnskies@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's good he was banned, then

[–] Zeppo@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

From what I recall, the discussions (which are still available) were 10% people saying the concept of defederation troubled them (which I don’t agree with, myself) and 90% people saying yes, fuck online hate speech.

[–] ComfortablyGlum@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

Makes complete sense.

[–] spez@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

Great Job!

[–] emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works -4 points 1 year ago

I'm not a huge fan of defederation (unless they're doing something illegal). We should just let Nazis make fools of themselves in public.