this post was submitted on 27 May 2025
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[–] ekremimaro@scribe.disroot.org 12 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

To address this problem, we need to fundamentally revisit the idea of the social contract. Even the definition of crime today feels outdated almost archaic. If you look into your country’s penal code, you’ll likely find absurd and antiquated laws that have no place in a modern society.

The deeper issue is this: most legal systems are still grounded in Victorian moralism, Puritan ideals that glorify work and wealth, and a liberal ethical framework that collapses under its own contradictions. Trying to solve complex structural violence with these tools just makes things worse.

The problem isn’t just systemic it’s internal. As long as we defend our comfort zones like fragile sandcastles, thinking “as long as I’m safe and untouched” (aka “I've got mine, so screw the rest”), then we will continue to see public resources diverted—not toward justice or equality—but recycled back at us as institutional violence.

[–] Vinstaal0@feddit.nl 4 points 7 hours ago

F.e. the current Dutch penal code was accept in 1881. Thats 144 years ago.

Part of the issue is that we are mostly stuck in an economic structure that cannot continue forever unless everybody partakes. Getting more wages every year, getting more revenue and profit every year, just doesn't work for eternity. In theory, if everybody got their 2%$ wage increases and interest was just 2% a year (excluding promotions or corrections for pas years etc) it would be fine.

The circular economy theory is one of those theories that attempts to fix that AND also work on helping the repair, reuse, recycle movement.

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 12 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

Can we be real? Police do not reduce crime.

Police punish criminals, or rather, they punish those that they think are criminals, since everyone is innocent until proven guilty (also the reason you shouldn't argue, fight with, nor run from cops.... They can charge you with crimes like evading arrest, even if the arrest is unlawful, resisting arrest, or assault on a "peace officer"... Justice does not come from police action, it comes from the actions of the court)...

Police usually show up, and/or take action after crimes have been committed, not before.

If you want effective crime prevention, there are plenty of good studies that prove what works, and putting more police on the streets, and giving them better and better arsenals is not on that list.

From social programs to "handouts" for healthcare and basics like food and shelter, among so many more proven tactics, can significantly reduce crime rates.

Giving the police money under the guise of reducing crime or being tough on crime is just political spin. What they're trying to do is funnel public dollars to their friends who make the equipment that the police use. Vests, weapons, radios, vehicles, you name it. More police means that police departments need more equipment to supply everyone.

These fuckers in government are serving themselves and their fat cat friends, not the public interest. The worst part is, that many believe their shit and think that it's for the public good to give the police more money.

That's the real problem here, ignorance. But again, that's what the fat cats want. The majority to be just stupid enough to believe whatever they're told and do no further investigation.... To have faith in liars, thieves and cheats.

[–] Vinstaal0@feddit.nl 3 points 8 hours ago

In a normal state of things the police doesn't decide who is a criminal, the justice system does and that should be separated from the government. Sadly there are more and more corrupt countries these days. But yeah giving them more money for anything else than to get more/better personel doesn't help.

[–] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -1 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

That's all great. But imagine being in the desert and knowing where an oasis is but just not telling any one about it. We all know this information on the left. We repeat it like crows cawing to each other. But we don't pass it a long. So unless we get better at sharing our views in a modern online world, all this information is not worth jack fucking shit. And sharing this information is not just reciting it verbatim in a comment in a forum among everyone that already knows this. Unless that's what we're really after. Pats on the back from people who agree with us.

[–] gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

But imagine being in the desert and knowing where an oasis is but just not telling any one about it

We could do that, but it's entirely irrelevant to the discussion

But we don't pass it a long.

Maybe you dont

[–] Bosht@lemmy.world 2 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

The circle jerk is definitely real, and I acknowledge it. At the same time though, to go along with your comment, we need to develop ways to actually bridge the gap. A lot, and in my experience most, of right leaning ignorant types are so hard set in their bullshit they won't listen. Deep set propaganda channels on the right are so engrained they refuse to take any information outside of it. Granted I understand my area is a bit worse as I'm deep in a red state, but it's disheartening as fuck. Not trying to be absolutist, I get there's always a way, just fuck if I know what it is.

[–] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago

In my experience, it all comes down to presentation. Most die-hard Trump supporters aren’t as locked into their beliefs as people assume. But when we approach them waving the typical "leftist" flag, their defenses immediately go up.

I've had plenty of honest conversations where, if you avoid the usual framing, many of them actually agree with progressive policies. But you can’t come at them swinging it shuts everything down.

They’re not dumb, racist caricatures they’re people, just like anyone else. One of the right’s biggest strengths is building a shield that prevents our ideas from even reaching them. We need to ask: Why is so much effort spent on keeping our perspectives from mixing?

There is a lot of money and effort among the right wing party to antagonize the left to become more aggressive and hateful of the right. And we fall for it constantly. We're trained to meet them with hostility, and that aggression plays right into the system’s hands. It doesn’t have to be that way. We should be discussing to understand their point of view and finding solutions for how the information we know can be used to open them up more to ours.

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 0 points 6 hours ago

This is what's so wack about society to me. We've got a side promising to give police more money and a side promising to give poor people some money and people will literally choose the former because they don't believe the latter.

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 23 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

As an outside observer it seems like American police culture is fundamentally rotten and it's not a funding issue.

[–] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world 3 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

What's cool is they are exporting it. The cops where you are look up to the American style. When the American cops retire, they will be hired to train your cops with seminars and books. Its a fun little community. So you're an outsider, but not for long. Just a few more years of passively waiting and you will be an insider soon.

[–] minorkeys@lemmy.world 23 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

It's almost like their highest priority isn't lowering crime.

[–] M1ch431@slrpnk.net 14 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

Chaos, artificial scarcity, and violence feeds the system and justifies its existence.

Otherwise, why would we still have a mass incarceration system? Why is it still punitive in nature with terrible and inhumane conditions normalized?

A cycle is created that makes people unemployable and industries and those in power reap the benefits at every stage of these people's lives - any police contact is effectively a scarlet letter. Specifically, many corporations benefit from the slave labor sourced from prisons and the private prison industry is its own can of worms.

With AI tooling screening job applicants with proprietary criteria, public data brokers, mass surveillance disguised as "adtech", people search websites, social media (where people have a tendency to overshare personal details), systematic reporting of arrest records/etc. in newspapers (generally with no updates to reflect the person's current situation); you can literally be unemployable in the US with no conviction or crimes that have been expunged or sealed.

If you have a felony or misdemeanor on your record - good fucking luck getting a job in today's market - background checks are normalized and are extremely accessible to employers. It's no wonder why people turn to crime to exist, discrimination is effectively legalized - there is insufficient regulation and protections for job applicants.

The only way to prevent crime is to rehabilitate those who commit crime and to provide services to enrich people's lives before they would otherwise commit crime. We also need to respect people's privacy upon rehabilitation - we shouldn't be permanently labeling (or dehumanizing) those deemed to be fit to return to society (e.g. people that aren't violent or who aren't a threat). We have to give them a path to participate in society.

[–] meep_launcher@lemm.ee 22 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (2 children)

I'm not disagreeing with this necessarily, but I don't like seeing a post by an account I have no idea about stating something as scientific fact, and then having that post taken as fact point blank. Once again, not trying to say what she is saying is incorrect, I just get concerned when I see bandwagoning on some random person's take.

That said, if you find the studies on this, please please please do us all a favor and comment those!

[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

There is a mountain of evidence and everything she says is common knowledge at this point to anyone who has spent even a few minutes looking it up. You can just use you favorite search engine to see for yourself.

You really just come off sounding aloof and uninformed. What evidence!? When you are swimming in a sea surrounded by it.

[–] meep_launcher@lemm.ee 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Sorry I was too busy yelling at other people on other threads.

But also my concern was about the reaction to the post, not necessarily the post itself, though the two are connected

[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

Fair enough, I can see your concern.

[–] faythofdragons@slrpnk.net 38 points 21 hours ago (3 children)

Here's a decent meta-analysis you can start with.

Sixteen reviews met the inclusion criteria. The reviews were comprised of nine peer-reviewed articles and reports from systematic review databases, five technical reports, and two working papers. Table 1 shows the reviews organized by objectives and geography

[–] stringere@sh.itjust.works 12 points 21 hours ago

Well done and thank you.

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[–] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 27 points 1 day ago (3 children)

California had a great mental health system in place. Ronald Reagan got elected and chose to close many of the in patient facilities. This lead to mass homelessness, which meant the police and prison budgets had to go up.

Then he did the same thing when he was President.

[–] gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 6 hours ago

California had a great mental health system in place.

I'm sorry, but no, we really fucking didn't. Reagan was wrong (about everything) to close them, but they weren't good before he did that by a looooong shot

[–] Jerb322@lemmy.world 7 points 21 hours ago (5 children)

Their excuse was rampant abuse, so instead of fixing it, they just closed them.

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[–] Kyrgizion@lemmy.world 323 points 1 day ago (54 children)

We've known for years that starting school at 08.00 is detrimental to school-aged children and teenagers, but we keep doing it.

We've known for years that WFH can be just as productive and even more so than RTO, but we keep doing it.

We've known for ages that housing homeless people helps them and society much better than criminalizing them, but we keep doing it.

We've known for ages that repressive stances on drugs are counterproductive, but we keep doing it.

We've known for ages that a 4-day workweek results in gains for everyone, including the owner class themselves, yet we keep on doing 5.

I'm starting to think that gaining knowledge and insight is completely useless if the results are never taken into account if they don't fit the currently reigning narrative.

Humans are a deeply flawed species. That alone is bad enough, but we KNOW we are, we KNOW how to solve at least some of it, yet we simply refuse.

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[–] FUBAR@lemm.ee 9 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

They’re not giving the police money. They’re giving the people who supply the police more money. Which are their people

More crime also means more slave labour and more equipment sales

[–] Qwaffle_waffle@sh.itjust.works 0 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

What if we all became cops? We get universal income? Lol

[–] epicstove@lemmy.ca 1 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

Sounds like the Hue & cry system.

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