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Question for those of you living in a country where marijuana is legal. What are the positive sides, what are the negatives?
If you could go back in time, would you vote for legalising again? Does it affect the country's illegal drug business , more/less?
OP, please change the title to make it less vague what the question is about without having to open it.
@oyzmo@lemmy.world
Legalize it, but it's still addictive. I don't think my nation has a weed problem, but how would I know? I don't know where to get weed or crack or heroin
I'm going to go against the grain here a little. First of all, it should absolutely be decriminalized. No one should spend time behind bars for using or selling it, obviously.
But it got legalized here back in 2022 and while it was great at first, weed sort of sucks now. Because of legal limits to how many plants you can grow, CBD disappeared. Every strain is somewhere between 20-30 percent THC and just makes your brain numb, doesn't get you high the same way. Everything is way more expensive because every few years they vote to increase taxes on it, so strains that were 5 bucks a g when it was illegal are 10-11 now. Edibles have concentration limits so you're paying out the ass now for 100 mg, which someone would before make in their kitchen and give away for cheap.
Not to mention that there is one. On. Every. Street. Corner.
It's insane. Every business that closes down turns into a dispo and the added competition does not lower prices. Out town is losing cafes, art stores, all sorts of businesses because the cancer that is a dispensary keeps spreading. On a personal note, I've been trying to cut back for years and honestly I think if I still had to call "my buddy" to pickup i would have stopped a long time ago, but now it's in my face everywhere and tbh, it just sucks. It just gets you high. That's it. I can't explain it, it lost so much heart.
Now it's probably cleaner, safer, more ethical. But from a consumers perspective, it kind of sucks now.
I am happy with the legalization. I’ve never smoked weed or even drunk alcohol despite being legally able to do so. And I still think weed legalization was a huge benefit for many reasons.
Like. Why was this bs ever illegal in the first place?
Thailand legalized it not too long ago and I'd say it's 90% positive.
There were a few populist issues like catching kids with weed etc but imo that's actually a positive as people starting to actually talk about kid safety when previously they had all these drugs and worse.
Personally I'd say the only danger is high concentrates which are illegal here and not very desired by the market either way. Mostly tourists and locals just want to smoke normal mid tier weed and enjoy the nature and thai food which is a win-win for everyone. I've seen some gravity bongs and a bit of oils (never seen anyone dab) but I'd say 90% of users just smoke mid tier 5$/g weed of 28% thc or so mostly mixed with tobacco too.
My favorite change is just the culture shift. Stoned tourists are just so much nicer and the party scene has changed a lot around this.
Legal weed as been huge for business here. Thai people are incredible entrepreneurs and were really quick to develop the industry to the point where the government tried to reverse legalization a year later but it was too late already.
Pretty sure weed causes far less harm than organised criminal groups.
Logically, if tobacco and alcohol are legal, there's no health-related reason for marijuana to be illegal. Both alcohol and weed impair your judgement, and both smoking tobacco and smoking weed are harmful to your lungs. Everything else about alcohol or tobacco vs weed is worse. And giving criminals easy ways to make money is a bad idea.
So, as another response said, legalize it, regulate it, tax it.
It's two years old, but here is what Statistics Canada has to say about it: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/231016/dq231016c-eng.htm
giant megacorps can definitely beat out some random shady dealer (indirectly from mental outlaw)
Legalise it, regulate the growing and selling of it and kill the green market.
It's sad to see a lot of the misinformation here that says there are no downsides to weed. In fact, weed has a ton of downsides that need to be considered in how marijuana is handled in a society.
If you are a visual/ audio learner, here's a well researched video on the downsides of weed, from a source that acknowledges their staffs personal biases lean towards legalization.
Kurzgesagt, "We Have to Talk About Weed
Basically, we need to recognize that due to having criminalized weed for so long, we are only now getting the research into the negative effects of weed, but as it's coming out we are seeing how weed is not all sunshine and rainbows.
THC potency has increased dramatically since the 60s, and that has led to increased risks of paranoia, psychosis, and panic attacks. It also increases the risk of Cannabinoid Hypermesis Syndrome, where ingesting weed will make you vomit, nauseous, and have horrible abdominal pain.
My roommate just got this and she is not having fun. Her doctor told her this may be a 6 month T-break, but it's also possible this is permanent, and best to avoid weed altogether.
I also am sad to see "weed is not addictive" being thrown around. Cannabis Use Disorder (weed addiction) is very real and a quick look up says 10% of users become addicted. Personally I consider myself stuck on a habit since I can control my use to keeping it after 8pm, but I still have trouble not getting high daily. I have a friend who is now 100 days sober, but when he had a relapse last year, it ruined his life.
That's not to say it's bad, I have another friend who needs weed to help him get through the day with his PTSD. We just need to recognize one person's medicine is another person's poison.
Most all of the major issues with weed tend to show up with people who began smoking in adolescence. I think a reason I'm somewhat I'm control and my other friend is not is that I started smoking at 22 in college, and he started at 16. I imagine if I waited until I was 25 I'd have no problem making it a weekend thing.
That said
My experience and the pain many have dealing with the health issues associated to weed are no where near comparable to the damage that criminalized weed has had on marginalized communities as weed has historically been used to target and oppress minorities by our US government. I also agree to the points that having a black market is FAR worse than having legal weed that needs regulation.
Personally I'm pro-legalization, but I think we need to be careful at how we are messaging weed to the youths and handling the negative consequences, as the myths of weed just being an innocent plant are super harmful.
That's a bit of a false dilemma though. The two options aren't "it's a magical elixir with absolutely no downsides" and "people deserve to be locked in a cage and have their life ruined for possessing it". Plenty of legal things can cause harm. 10% of people are lactose intolerant, do we ban dairy?
Did you read the whole comment? OP finishes his comment addressing exactly what you question, they say the good outweighs the bad, and it should be legal.
I think that this is a very balanced and thoughtful take that I agree with. As someone who has been smoking daily for the better part of 4 years now, weed has helped a lot but it has also hurt me a lot. At my peak i could easily kill a quad a day, although now I'm down to a gram a day if that. I would've been in a much better position financially if I never started smoking, and I'm sure my health would've been a lot better. That being said, smoking has helped me through some very difficult times and has given me community. I started smoking in highschool but stopped until I graduated and started again right before college. I've stopped having my own supply at points (not stopped smoking altogether but gone mostly sober), but especially in this day and age it's very helpful to have it. It doesn't help that where I am, a lottttttt of people are cali sober (me included).
++
It costs more to police it. It is profitable otherwise. No one genuinely cares. I haven't smoked since college. It eventually gets boring. It's a business. That's it. Sorry there isn't a mystical description for it. It's money.
I don't care about health benefits/dangers of any vice as much as I hate how ingrained vices are in our daily lives. I'm sick of beer ads, I hate online sports betting sponsoring every event (and rapidly turning a lot of friends into gamblers), my recently weed-legal state is already flooded with local ads and shitty shops.
I dream of a utopia where no vices are sold in a store or advertised. If you want to indulge you go to the equivalent of a Native American casino on steroids. It's a massive temple to hedonism, zoning for it is very restricted. You can do any drug you want there, everything carefully dosed and tested. There's complimentary trip-sitters and emergency services on call.
Things that aren't an immediate threat to yourself/others (mushrooms, lsd, mj, low abv drinks, etc...) can be sold for private personal consumption off-prem with a reasonable limit per person. You can't partake in public and can be asked for proof of purchase during transit.
There's no perverse vice tax that leeches money from addicts who can't afford it, the government's best financial interest is to keep people clean and spending money elsewhere. If you need something to routinely "take the edge off" you get easy access to medical services (mental/physical/otherwise) and a prescription from a real doctor.
Any time I hear arguments for full legalization of anything in the USA I just have nightmares of inane Budweiser-style weed/cocaine/heroin commercials.
I feel like you have issues with the way capitalism takes advantage of people's vices and you blamed half of it on the vices. If it wasn't exploited, and drugs weren't criminalized, with normal and healthy social standards taught instead of total abstinence creating an attractive taboo, none of that would be an issue.
Except, there'd still be issues, because addiction creates issues. A society where drugs are allowed is not one free from issues. They'll still ruin lives. They'll still destroy families, and hurt children. Education helps, but it does not eliminate the problem
Neither does making a drug house that people need transportation to get to. That's the same as criminalizing it for many people.
I'm of the opinion that unless it's regulated in some way, people will be systemically/individually exploited. An addict can't be trusted to keep doses safe, be sure they're using in a safe place, or properly prioritize their personal wellness.
Just recognize it's something that's going to happen and take reasonable efforts to set limits without glamourizing it. Controlling ease of access is a simple way to do that (look at the bump in gambling problems since the 2018 SCOTUS ruling). You don't have to kick in the doors of everyone with a personal grow or basement home brewing setup.
If these substances could be handled universally with education and social mores, total abstinence would have already worked. No amount of taboo can make crippling addiction sexy.
A drug casino doesn't solve those problems though. Better social services for addicts can. Addiction is impossible to eradicate, all you can do is provide good social services for addicts and recovery programs (which aren't judgemental and Christian). Requiring transportation to go get and use drugs is the same thing as criminalizing it for many people.
Any safety and recovery programs are a lot easier to manage when you know exactly where your source is and who's using. Safe injection sites already exist and have been shown to eliminate overdoses and increase access to social services without any honeypot effect or increased drug use. Adding safe and tested drug sales to the site is a pretty logical step.
Requiring transportation is a detail for implementation, you already need it to do anything in the USA. Unless you think every person has a right to get drugs delivered to their doorstep?
There's a big difference between the weed shop I can walk to down the corner and the nearest safe use site/casino. I think people should be free to engage in whatever recreational activity they choose to, and the existence of addiction doesn't give the government the right to infringe on those freedoms. Safe use sites and social programs can exist without a semi-dystopian puritan system. I don't understand why addiction is so huge a problem that it requires such insane overreach. Without capitalist exploitation, addiction wouldn't be monetized. A different form of government and legalization do a far better job at managing addiction than creating a black market with draconian laws.
If you think weed should not be legalized, then you should be consistent and apply the same to alcohol and tobacco. Both of these substances do far more harm than weed with far fewer medical properties.
Deal 🤝
Prohibition of vice does not work and only empowers organized crime.
End of argument.
Scientifically speaking, the pros outweigh the cons everytime.
Public Safety should not be done with the assumption that the public is made up of stupid children that would kill themselves at every possible opportunity (though some people are like that) rather it should come with the assumption that adults are smart enough and have the right to make decisions about them selves.
The government should work towards education so that the public can be better informed and only restrict extreme situations where a reasonable mistake can lead to unreasonable consequences or harm to others. And "Gateway drugs" is as stupid as saying that teaching people how to use a knife would lead them to seek out sharper and bigger knives until they stab themselves and die.
It doesn’t matter. I’ll still smoke it.
Pros:
Cons:
I'm not a regular smoker, I think we are better off having it legal though.
Legalize all drugs. Move 100% of the enforcement funds into drug treatment programs. And then tax them and put that towards treatment programs.
Legalization has only positives
People who need something, to get through the day, will always seek for some kind of crutch.
When the legal range of available products (sorry, just learned, that the word "Sortiment" doesn't have a nice English equivalent) aren't helping ones issue, they'll look for other sources.
But unregulated sources can bring multiple problems with it.
First off, and the thing, I care about most:
we'd/we do hurt people looking for some kind of help.
Either by directly reducing their sources of crutches to untrustable and dangerous ones, with a product that's very probably not clean and could damage the user in unintended ways, they aren't aware about.
We need to provide a safety net for people with problems, and not stigmatize those who try to help themselves.
And I've never met an addict, that was just an addict for the sake of it, or the feeling of the first time was so great - ok, maybe once I did.
But in every other case, the only ones getting hooked are the ones, that finally felt good with themselves for once in their life, when they somehow introduced some drug into their system.
And that's why many of them say, it was that feeling of the first time, they always try to reproduce.
For a normal happy person, heroin wouldn't make much of a difference.
But if you're feeling unloved and alone, hurt and abused, when you're feeling lost and don't know what to do, than end yourself.
Well then, then heroin (or whatever helps your cause) will give you a new perspective of life.
This escape from overwhelming, oppressive, suffocation problems is it, why people get hooked on drugs.
There is just nothing wrong with recreational use, as long as it's just about boosting a good time or even better, use mind altering drugs in a ritual setting, to change your perspective on things and learn (again) that love and your lives ones are the center of your life - or discover, that there was always one thing, that you wanted to do.
Doesn't matter, if it gives you more options and happiness in life, it wasn't bad.
Bad it is for the people who cling to it, because only on it, they feel like functioning normal.
Those people have actual drug problems, and even with crystal meth the statistics say, that only a few percent (we're talking 1-2%) get addicted.
(At least that's, what I saw and remember - proof me wrong)
And we have to keep in mind what social stigma fucking crystal meth has!
The group of people doing it (and show up on those statistics) are mostly people, that are already looking for such experiences and have stepped over the border of social tolerance, but look for their own thing (either enjoyment or escape/help)
And there is pretty much no one, who ever just started with meth (or other hard drugs, like heroin) . In the most cases there was at least alcohol and probably cigarettes/nicotine involved - there are absolutely always exceptions, but that doesn't change much, what needs to change in our social system.
As tragic, as those exceptions are, those usually happen in groups, where people with problematic drug use already gather.
So, solving the problem of the mass, should also help to reduce those sad exceptions.
Ok, I've started a bigger second point, but the only thing left I have are those few words, trying to start describing an idea:
"Then we need to look into the individual"
Well,... I hope the first point is sufficient, and if I ever remember what I wanted to say else, I'll come back here ;-)
So kids, you see, don't abuse drugs, else you won't remember shit... - although my mother has the same problem, and never in her live did anything illicit.
So I can't say with confidence, that we can talk about causation.
But, what hurt my mind most, were social traumata (e.g. a Burnout), and drugs (and many exercises like meditation) exceptionally helped my mental state and ability to handle life and work despite my handicap.
As I said, as long as I actively work on a problem and use drugs in a ritual state, they are helping me.
As soon as I need them just to get through the day, then I'm having a problem, I'm trying to avoid.
I know, this is mostly about me, but talking with other users, I've mostly seen the same mindset.
with crystal meth the statistics say, that only a few percent (we're talking 1-2%) get addicted.
Couldn't find the numbers on meth specifically but I'm highly skeptical.
I'd argue that any form of self medication is inherently unhealthy, and free access to legal substances doesn't fix that. Some people are able to navigate it responsibly but it's not possible for most people.
The human brain is a complex soup of chemicals and electrical impulses, altering it with a substance won't result in an objective self assessment of the effects.
Taking your example, plenty of normal and reasonably happy people get addicted to opiods. The first experiences are on such a different scale to regular chemical pleasure your brain generates that it alters your perception of normal feelings.
If you ask someone to compare that high to normal life before or after, they'll tell you they never experienced "true" happiness before.
There are real, observable, permanent changes to brain structure from drug use. I don't think that type of change should be taken lightly with personal experimentation. It should have the same scrutiny and medical guardrails that we give other permanent body choices.
For anyone interested, some reading on heroin's impact on the brain
Legalize it
Tax it
Regulate it
Yes legalize. It shouldn't have been banned to begin with. It makes more sense to ban alcohol than cannabis if we're just talking from a public safety perspective. It was actually banned because the lumber industry wanted to chop down trees for paper rather than letting hemp take the lead.
