Ask Lemmy

Because positive masculinity doesn't get clicks like toxic masculinity does, sadly. No shortage of examples of the latter, but there just aren't enough examples of healthy manhood out there to learn from, or at least not enough ones in the algorithms.

What's worse, in so many cases it's assumed that positive masculinity just means being receptive, sensitive, collaborative and being connected with others. These are qualities that are typically associated with women, and a lot of guys shun anything that might make them "look like a woman". Then it's assumed, more or less, that you'll need to be more like a woman in order to not be toxic.

Obviously not true, but this leaves young men in a vacuum. So they fail to live up to their potential, plus they lose out on relationships, are isolated from their peers who could steer them in a better direction, and are without a secure sense of self.

So, in come the Andrew Tates of the world to give them a seemingly easier and better way to cope. Sure, they're told they're special, but then they're fed the notions like "might is right", that there are only winners and losers in this world, and to "get the prom queen". Not wanting to miss out on this is incredibly enticing for these young men, so the manosphere sucks them right in.

It's gotta so, so much deeper than just changing the messaging. Positive male role models and helping young men understand who they are, creating healthy examples of masculinity that are both manly and positive, can make a difference. Without that, the far-right black hole that is the manosphere is going to keep getting more young men trapped in it.

A lot of young men are lacking role models and community these days.

More kids are growing up without fathers around now (single parenthood is up from 9% in the 1960s to about 25% today).

Most people's source of community used to be church, but since the advent of the internet, people are rapidly moving away from organized religion. I think this has disproportionately impacted men, who tend to be less social on average.

And I think in general, a lot of young men feel like nobody cares about their personal struggles.

So, even some toxic dude like Andrew Tate can show up and say "Hey, you're great. Here are the reasons why things are bad for you and what you should do, and here's a community of like-minded people to interact with." and these guys are going to dive in head first.

Same reason people flocked to Trump to vote for him, this false idealization that he was this bold, bright and strong leader.

Same reason people worshiped Musk, thinking he was and is the future with all of the money to do it.

It's like any or all qualities of themselves that they lack or devoid of educating themselves or learning. They replace it with blind devotion.

Part of it is that propaganda works. A lot of people are trying to make fascism happen and this type of content fits right in.

But also, there's a growing issue of men not knowing how to act around women, and there isn't much non-misogynist competition for Tate. It seems like for a lot of people (both men and women) it's harder to make personal connections these days than it used to be, and apps like Tinder exarcerbate the issue.

Social medias thrive on engagement, and controversial content is king of engagement.

So social medias companies push content like Andrew Tate and co because it makes them money and they don't care about anything else.

Young people are impressionable, and they get pushed that crap over and over.

If everyday of your life you get told that women are just baby factories, you will eventually start to believe it, some sooner than others.

Unimpressive men who have exhausted all other ways to gain social status except by force, resort to forcibly gaining status.

The world around them is collapsing. Tate promises to have the solution. For whatever reason, his solution makes sense to them. So they follow him.

I think the decline of misogyny is the reason. As it's not as normalized as it once was, yet still a very powerful lingering thread in our culture, men are seeking validation for it where they would have otherwise found validation for misogyny, unasked for and unconditionally, in their everyday social circles in previous eras.

Social media algos are creating this. This is why a lot of 20-38 year old young boys are turning to conservatism. This is how the rich wealthy elites are overthrowing the last few remaining democries. UK is currently their main target. They were successful with Germany and they are now expading. In 3-6 years, the world will have completely shifted to the right.

Another possible reason may be online dating.

https://youtu.be/x3lypVnJ0HM

Most people use online dating. Average looking men have very low chances to get a match because of : The much lower number of women on these platforms compared to men; which leads to the logical consequence of men lowering standards to increase their chances of getting a match; which of course leads to women being more selective causing a feedback loop that compounds on itself. So only the highly attractive men get a lot of likes and this leads to them being promiscuous which makes women think all men are assholes. And because finding a date is easy for women it's also very easy to ghost men for the smallest things.

And this whole system is also propped up by the Match group which owns all major dating apps in order to squeeze out as much as they can out of desperate people, basically monetizing loneliness.

When you swipe and swipe for months and only get one date and get ghosted right after, you start to devalue yourself, what other explanation can there be except that as a man you are horrible. And you spiral into depression and blame yourself (when in fact the whole system is wrong and is bad for both men and women).

Then suddenly comes a macho man who tells you that women are the problem, that it's not you (and that they also have courses to sell that will make you finally get women), of course you're gonna believe him, finally a way out of depression. A wrong way, a shitty way, but a way nonetheless.

These people are hurt and are acting out in the wrong way, leading to more hurting. And people like Andrew Tate are getting rich off of it.

PS: A long time ago OkCupid had you answering between 20 and a few hundreds of questions, plus answers you'd expect from your potential partner, plus how important that question is for you; and then it would show you a list of matched in order of compatibility. It was amazing. (but it got bought out by Match and turned into a tinder clone).

Because it's all too easy to abdicate responsibility, let other people look after you and be a shit. If we empower any sort of crappy behaviour, that behaviour grows.

Lack of healthy father figure, lack of social exposure, lack of success with women, lack of constructive rolemodels (people like tate replace constructive rolemodeks), lack of empathy through lack of life experience/social exposure, lack of introspection, lack of proven confidence (craving for outside approval/desire to compensate for perceived own shortcomings)

All of these possibly enable, enforce, or worsen each other

I'd argue there's a niche that's not being filled by standard community interactions in regards to learn how your society thinks you should act, and that's where the scum starts crawling in. These guys wouldn't have an audience without there being a pre-existing market for their bullshit.The pipeline starts really early now as well with kids being allowed on the internet, and it's just so fucking disheartening. I got a lot of bullshit fed into me when I was younger, but I can't imagine how much gets directly beamed into your brain nowadays.