Ask Lemmy

I think Trump will dump and pump repeatedly until he's stopped. Him and his billionaire bum chums will be absolutely raking it in.

The 90 day pause on tariffs is doing all the heavy lifting right now. We're going back into crisis mode in a few months.

Meanwhile, the stock market isn't the only indicator of economic health. Mass layoffs are still happening, prices aren't falling, inflation is still at risk to blow up again, consumer spending is down, and all the major banks are predicting a recession with better than coin flip odds.

We're absolutely not out of the woods yet.

We're hardly even three months in... We've got a loooong way to go before even the midterms.

Almost certain that Trumspki will do something stupid soon and then more stupid shit after that. The S&P will be look like a wild roller coaster.

Wake up, people.

Taiwan makes 50% of the world's semiconductor 'chips'. They just announced a US$100 billion investment to build a fab plant in the US, to manufacture chips in the US. A few things about that.

No American company has anywhere close to $100 billion to invest in anything, The American corporations used their profits to buy back their stock not to invest n production. What cash they had left over, they invested in stocks and bonds, which they have to try and sell before they can use the money. American corporations are. essentially, cash liquidity poor despite their huge profits. They do not have the liquidity to build anything. Musk may be the world's richest man on paper, but a few Chinese financiers have much greater liquidity wealth than he does, and they are actually able to BUILD things. It is the difference between financialized wealth and actual money.

South Asia has enough investment money to build more kilometers (miles, if you are American) of high speed rail every year for the last several years than the US has TOTAL, and this money is just a drop in the bucket to them. There just is not enough liquidity in American corporations to build anywhere close to what China can do. American corporations squandered their wealth in the pursuit of maximizing profit payouts to shareholders, and the shareholders just used this capital to buy the same shares at higher and higher prices Not a penny of that money went into building new plant, it just went to increasing the price of existing shares.

Essentially, America is becoming a branch plant operation of Chinese corporations with profits going back to South Asian investors, and Americans get stupidly low wages. America is rapidly becoming the low-wage country of the world. The lower the stock market goes, the cheaper it is for South Asian money to buy up control of American corporations. When GM went bankrupt, China bought the restructured shares. When Ford almost went bankrupt, China bought the non-American Ford subsidiaries to save Ford, but essentially gained complete control of Ford. All profits from Ford auto sales go back to China. Haier now owns General Electric Appliance Division, and is now making what are essentially Haier appliances in America, using cheap slave-labor-wage Americans to build them cheaper than they can in China. All the profits, however, go back to China.

The Law of Unintended Consequences. The Trump misguided policies are just accelerating the sell-off of America. Trump wants foreign corporations to build their product in America, using cheap American labor, ignoring completely that the profits all flow out of America and the foreign investors now control American production.

Like Trump said, it is a good time to get rich. Like Trump dd NOT say, it is the South Asians that are getting rich. China owns most of the American treasury bills, now China will soon own most of the American production plant.

Nahman. It’s the shaft

Yah, I'll trust him like running into a dog that nipped my hand before.

The problem is not Trump. America would be in the same predicament no matter who was leading or what party or what ideology they had. Obama hit the nail on the head when he talked about the dangers of financializing America - making money on money instead of making product. A substantia portion of the American GDP has nothing to do with generating tangible wealth, it is a result of inflating paper wealth - the value pf stocks, the price of gold, the value of real estate, the interest payments from other people on borrowed money, interest on your savings account that is only as valuable as the bank that holds the account. None of this wealth can actually buy anything tangible, except more paper wealth. Eventually, the country begins to look like Musk - on paper, enormously wealthy, but in terms of liquid money, unable to buy very much. Musk has to use his paper asset wealth to BORROW real money on, if he wants to do anything big.

Generally, Trump is not alone. All of America is just running around stupidly cuckoo crazy because they realize there is not a single thing they can do to actually stop the decline. They are in pure panic mode, grasping at anything that comes along, and panic is always chaotically unpredictable except for the nature of the outcome.. All they can do is to position themselves individually so that when the country goes 'splat' they have a chance of surviving.

For Canada to avoid the splat, we need to put as much distance between us and the 'splat' as we can, instead of being at ground zero of the impact.

The plan is to declare martial law on the 20th.

So we'll see if that effects the stocks.

Alot has happened in the last 6 years that has financially changed the world. Corona virus and the breakdown of global supply chains. Biden froze Russia's investments in US treasuries resulting in the weaponization of the global reserve currency at the start of the Ukrainian war. Further trust was eroded by Trump and his abandonment of previously agreed upon trade deals and imposing tariffs of varying degrees that are adjusted at will, per emotion. Whatever your political leanings you best get ready for some difficult times as the world loses faith and trust in American global leadership.

Your title makes it sound like you think the S&P is going to get a lot higher. This is because you mention growth, then use a tip of the iceberg analogy, which suggests that the rest of the iceberg is more growth. If you wanted to suggest a crash, you should have used a different analogy.

What climb? Its still down 8.61% since he took office. Crazy to celebrate losing almost 9%.

By contrast Biden's second to last year was UP 24.23%. His last year was up yet another 23.31%.

To put dollars on this:

• If under Biden you'd put $100,000 into the S&P500 on Jan 2023 on Dec 31 2023 you'd have $124,230.
• If still under Biden you left your $124,230 in the S&P500 on Dec 31 2024 you'd have $153,188.01.
• Under trump if you'd put $100,000 into the S&P500 on Jan 2025 by today Apr 13th 2023 you'd have $91,390

I see no cause for celebration here.

What Trump is doing now will almost certainly outlast his presidency. One man, just one, has completely betrayed all of the trading relationships this country built over the course of a century, and even better, he did it unconstitutionally and Congress went along with it for their own enrichment, both Democrat and Republican.

Supply lines will be recalibrated. Our foreign partners will make new relationships with more dependable trading partners. (ie, China.) Over the course of the next decade or two, the utter stupidity of what Trump has done will play out to full effect. A few hundred Americans who shoved their heads up Trump's ass will get richer, but long-term, this is going to hurt most Americans.

If you're not diversifying your investments geographically you're no longer diversified at all.

The tariffs alone would be enough to cause a recession. It's not just that they're large (even 10% is large by modern standards) it's mostly that they're so chaotic. I've read that most businesses are avoiding hiring, avoiding any expenditures they can, and just waiting to see what happens. Seeing what happens means keeping cash on hand, which means a drop in GDP. The numbers might have been juiced a bit by people making big orders and trying to get them done before the tariffs come into full effect, but once that's done the pain is going to be much more visible.

In addition to the tariffs, there's the firing of federal workers. There are about 3 million in the US, and even if only a fraction have been fired so far, I would bet the rest are cutting back on unnecessary expenses and building up a cash reserve in case they get canned. This will ripple through the economy too.

And then there's the ICE stuff. People with green cards getting deported for exercising their first amendment rights, scientists being refused entry for a post they made on social media in their home countries, Canadian, German and British people being thrown in an ICE detention facility because of a minor paperwork mix-up. This is going to make tourists and business visitors much less willing to take a chance and visit the US, but this won't hit until later. Big tourist season is the summer, and so the lack of business won't show up yet. And some conferences were too close to cancel, but conferences for later in the year might be moved or cancelled.

And there's the invasion threats against Canada and Greenland, and the tariff wars against Canada and Mexico, and the refusal to help Ukraine defend itself against Russia. The biggest visitors to the US were Canadians, Mexicans and Europeans, and all of them are going to be avoiding the country now. And, not just avoiding the country. People are trying to avoid buying US goods and services.

In addition, there are treasuries. Many are held by Japan and China. Even just acting purely rationally, they see the chaos in the US and know the US might not be able to pay its bills, or it might choose not to pay them. The risk has gone up. If they aren't being purely rational and self-interested, they also know that they can hurt the US by dumping treasuries, so they're doing that.

And then there are the scientists leaving the US, or choosing not to come. And there are potential international students who see how risky it is for anybody who isn't white, male and christian. This sort of thing might take decades, but it's going to hurt the US the most. So many of the world's most talented people have come to the US and started businesses, but that is definitely going to slow down now.

Even if Trump were impeached and removed, and all his changes were undone with apologies, there has been some permanent damage done to the US by the MAGA majority. But, since it is a majority, since the MAGAs control the supreme court, the senate, the house and the presidency, there's going to be a lot more damage done before there's even a hint of a stabilization, let alone a recovery.

I think any rational investor is going to get their money out of the US, and the slight recovery the S&P 500 has seen in the last week is going to be dwarfed by the crash over the next few years.

I completely agree with you. The real shit show hasn't even started. The waves from the tsunami will take a while to hit.

I’m more concerned with the bond sell-off, that’s a very bad sign.

Some of the greatest daily gains in the stock market are during overall crashes.

Increased volatility is generally a bad sign for an economy's health.

Climbing? Wait the market opening react to the new semiconductor tariff bomb released 10 hours ago