this post was submitted on 03 Apr 2025
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Science Memes

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[–] hark@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago

Hardware vs software solution?

[–] taulover@sopuli.xyz 143 points 4 days ago (19 children)

The way mantis shrimp see is nonetheless super cool and interesting. They likely have no conception of 2D color at all, and can only sense the 12 different colors in general. Furthermore, only the midband of their eyes see color, when the eyes are moving and scanning for prey, they don't see color at all, which probably helps offload mental load for their small brains. Once they do see something, they then stop moving their eyes to determine the color of what they're looking at.

Also, mantis shrimp have 6 more photoreceptors in addition to the 12 colored ones, to detect polarized light. They likely see them the same way that they see color, so they probably don't consider them anything different than wavelength which is what we interpret as color.

Ed Yong's An Immense World has a section on this and I'd highly recommend it. The ways animals sense and perceive the world are often so different for ours and it's so fascinating.

[–] kayzeekayzee@lemmy.blahaj.zone 73 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

For anyone wondering why they would need to see polarized light: I actually looked into this a few months ago!

Other animals that are trying to blend in with the environment often use countershading appear less conspicuous. The problem with this is that this method can't replicate the polarization of the light behind them, making them stand out if you can see that sort of thing. ((Sunlight in the ocean is always polarized based on the direction of the sun (look up fresnel equations for s and p polarized light))). Even transparent creatures will interrupt the polarization in some way, so this is a very useful skill to have.

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[–] bluewing@lemm.ee 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

They still taste good. So they got that going for them I guess.

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 days ago (3 children)

I'm not a fan, but that's neither here nor there. I'm weird.

I'm just not sure that flavor can be considered a positive character trait?

Maybe I'm stupid. Who knows? Clearly not me.

[–] emeralddawn45@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Maybe you taste good at least.

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago

I also would not know about that.

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[–] tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip 15 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Really wish talking about what shrimp see didn't remind me that in farming them females have one eye removed to promote breeding

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyestalk_ablation

[–] Sedathems@mander.xyz 17 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I am eternally gratefull the practice is forbidden in Europe in organic cultivation. It's one of the small wins that fly under the radar. It's still a long way to people choosing for organic, awareness is the start of every change.

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 days ago

Can't fix what you don't know is wrong.

[–] flicker@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 days ago

Anyone who eats shrimp should absolutely read this.

[–] Geodad@lemm.ee 24 points 3 days ago (13 children)

Technically, all the colors are fake. They're just the halucinations of a brain trying to understand the input from sensory organs.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 22 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (18 children)

That doesn't make them fake, in the same way that x can mean 2. You are merely representing a given value (in this case light within a certain electromagnetic spectrum) in a useful way.

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[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 7 points 2 days ago (2 children)

So are any animals actually capable of seeing the invisible spectrums of light? Because humans technically can see them, since we make tools that allow us to. Suck on that, other animals. 😤

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 15 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Like infrared and ultraviolet? Yeah, there are animals that see those.

[–] Shou@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

And all the other stuff we yse to see celestial objects and communicate long distance. Our phones are able to see colours we can't!

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 5 points 2 days ago (3 children)

I've been thinking about how a species with a metal horn could evolve to use it as a radio and even a hive mind.

[–] Daefsdeda@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Imagine aliens attacking us but getting fucked because their hive mind works on the same frequency of radio or wifi.

[–] EddoWagt@feddit.nl 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Imagine airdropping a meme directly into the brain of an alien

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I'm imagining the martians from Mars Attacks but instead of saying "we come in peace" they're saying "skibidi toilet" and then their head explodes, like when they hear yodeling.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 2 points 2 days ago

In my head as they evolve and learn how it works they customize their antenna to fit their needs. But yeah, that would be funny. Like Signs but shorter. They land somewhere quiet electromagnetically. Could even make it one of those super sensitive telescopes you can't take any devices near for a bit of dramatic irony. There are some frequencies that are more quiet than others but most are pretty noisy. Sometimes I wonder what it would be like to time travel to the past and see how much noise there is compared to now.

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[–] gajahmada@awful.systems 4 points 2 days ago

Birds ?

I'm not gonna pretend I understand the magic words here https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsif.2019.0295

[–] RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

They can still see true magenta though.

[–] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 63 points 3 days ago (10 children)

I think this speaks to a significant misunderstanding that most people hold of the way vision actually works.

Most people imagine that vision is a relatively simple process by which our eyes detect and transmit to us the nature of the world. Not so.

Eyes are complex and interesting organs in their own right but fundamentally what they do is relatively simple. They are able to detect and report to the brain certain qualities of the light that hits them. Primarily these are: intensity, direction, and proximity to three points on the frequency spectrum (what we perceive as red, green, and blue). But this data alone is not vision. Vision is a conscious experience our brains create by interpreting and processing this data into the visual field before us—basically, a full scale 3D model of the world in front of us, including the blended information on reflection and emission that color entails.

Quite amazing! Most of this takes place in the human brain, and not the eyes. From this perspective, it is not terribly surprising that an organism with more complex eyes but a much simpler brain might have worse vision than we do.

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[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 43 points 3 days ago (3 children)

How did they test if they could see color? Did they make little shrimp dioramas or something?

[–] Donkter@lemmy.world 47 points 3 days ago

They asked them politely

[–] GoodLuckToFriends@lemmy.today 28 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The easiest way is to use the principles of conditioning. Pair a stimulus with a certain color light, then start flashing up different colored lights. If the organism is cued to the stimulus by multiple colors of lights, it means that they can't really distinguish between them.

That's how we tested when kids lose the ability to distinguish certain phonemes.

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[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 50 points 3 days ago (9 children)

Reminds me a little of CD digital audio. The original Red Book audio standard hasn't really been improved upon because it's uncompressed audio which covers basically all of the range of human hearing within the capabilities of any speaker we could build. It's uncompressed because in the early 80's when the tech hit the market, it was completely unfeasible to include the CPU and RAM needed to decompress audio in real time.

Shrimp has more color receptors because he doesn't have enough neurons to run trichromacy, so he sees in EGA.

[–] gabereal@sopuli.xyz 31 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Shrimp has more color receptors because he doesn’t have enough neurons to run trichromacy, so he sees in EGA.

love this. nice job :)

VGA vs EGA, from the game 'Police Quest 3'

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[–] Wizzard@lemm.ee 15 points 3 days ago (3 children)

But compared with human eyesight, they could still see more 'colors' - As we see (almost) the same white in incandescent bulbs as LEDs and fluorescents, they might actually see the component colors and their intensities.

Not unlike how we may hear a combination tone when multiple other tones are played, and hear the difference (or sum) of them.

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[–] Zoboomafoo@slrpnk.net 36 points 3 days ago (5 children)

The shrimp are holier than we are because they cannot see the devil's color (it's pink 🩷)

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[–] Iron_Lynx@lemmy.world 12 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Imagine how OP their colour perception would be if they did have that mental processing power

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[–] baatliwala@lemmy.world 24 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I need to use wherewithal more in my daily life

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