"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
Welcome to MoG!
Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
What is a Tankie?
(caution of biased source)
Basic Rules:
Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. β Basically, don't be a dick.
Hate-Speech β You should be familiar with this one already; practically all instances have the same rules on hate speech.
Apologia β (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.
Revisionism β No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present. Calling Tankies shills, foreign/federal agents, or bots also falls under this rule. Extremists exist. They are real. Do not call them shills or fake users as it handwaves their extremism.
Tankies can explain their views but may be criticised or attacked for them. Any slight infraction on the rules above will immediately earn a warning and possibly a ban.
Off-topic Discussion β Do not discuss unrelated topics to the point of derailing the thread. Stay focused on the direct content of the post as opposed to arguing.
You'll be warned if you're violating the instance and community rules. Continuing poor behaviour after being warned will result in a ban or removal of your comments. Bans typically only last 24 hours, but each subsequent infraction will double the amount. Depending on the content, the ban time may be increased. You may request an unban at any time.
It's already turned into a shitshow, they've been brigading enmasse, downvoting and trolling just like they used to. Guess some things never change, eh?
at least the hexies do it with their hex accounts unlike the ml lot that smurf as other instances
Don't worry, they'll get banned on their Hexbear accounts and switch back to their .ml and lemm.ee sockpuppets to continue their shitty behaviour soon enough.
Could be by design, itβs a feature
Boy, I sure do remember when the beehaw admins were fussing with the Lemmy developers (which for the record I actually kind of take the Lemmy devsβ side of), and the Lemmy devs held up Hexbear as an instance that has been with us since the beginning, the ones who were really worthy of honors of being true believers as far as what Lemmy should stand for. Unlike beehaw and their moderation philosophy. That was a super normal and defensible thing for them to say.
Please pray for those of us who mod political communities that Hexbear federates with π
Get them to ban your account. Then their users will not be able to see your posts or comments, to reply to. Ironically, the best gift they gave me.
EDIT: Goddamnit! They unbanned me just now.
Fair warning: You need to actually be dangerous to their thought bubble to eat a ban. Just insulting them won't suffice, they'll leave that up to make criticism of their position look irate and irrational, what you need to do is to go to asklemmygrad or such and get both up- and downvotes. Make them question.
You might be able to force them to if you threaten to DMCA them for hosting your own copyrighted content. Posts and comments on Lemmy are technically literature which is copyright protected, and while you give your own instance license to host them via their Terms of service, you don't necessarily give the same permission to remote instances like Hexbear.
That fun little loophole with how federation works, you can explicitly request instances exclude you or it can really suck for them. Lemmy should probably have a built-in option for this to exclude yourself in this manner but don't count on the devs to add it unless people start DMCAing Hexbear and ML to "opt-out" of federation with those servers.
I think the idea that's your content will be rehosted by other servers and you give implicit permissions to do so should he part of your tos
They were really chomping at the bit to ban me for months, because I constantly criticize "left unity" and deny that anarchists can collab with MLs with any systematic significance. (You should see how mald they got at some of my memes. Talking about 1000+ comment pile on!)
As a result, they kept posting "dunks" about our instance in their subs full of bad faith and hypocrisy, which I felt compelled to defend against, but I stuck to the subject at hand, so they had no excuse to ban me. Eventually they just banned me from one of their dunk comms for "liberalism" and deleted all my defenses of our instance that I had been writing for hours. That injustice triggered my ASD and I called that mod a "hypocritical PoS" in one DM, so they finally had an excuse π .
That's actually an awesome idea. Not having to deal with another childish ML screaming "anarkiddie" when you point out that China isn't communist. Or the breathless "but-but-but someday they will be!!!!! 1!" Because as we all know, those with power love to give it up.
You misunderstand them. For many such campists. China is already perfectly fine.
Oh no I understand it. And campism is 100% the right word for it. 100% childish and lacking in critical thought. Being a pragmatist I tend to rub ideologues the wrong way regardless. But at least some of them you can understand and respect. Campists should not get any.
I do have to ask, if the admins here are banned from Hexbear, why are we (dbzer0) federated with them?
Not an attempt at a gotcha, I'm just curious why we are.
Because I'm not trying to be a BDFL. If people want to defed from hexbear, they can ask for a defed vote.
You are one whether you want it or not though? You canβt just ask everybody what instance decision to take at every step?
It's an Anarchist instance, they try to be as democratic and community driven as possible. Actually this one here is very similar to that, we have !agora@sh.itjust.works where people can have discussions about things like that and mods may post a vote as well.
dbzer0 is an anarchist instance. They try to avoid any heavy-handed stuff (like defederation) unless the community specifically asks for it.
Of course not, but I work within mandates and can be recalled at any time, which is not how dictators for life work
How can you be recalled and keep instance functioning? Who elects another instance overseer and is it fair process?
If you really wanted it to be fair then you would have division of power: 1. Intern technician 2. Press 3. Judiciary system. And last but not least Elected overseer -> you
I can be recalled as an admin, but I remain as a sysadmin. I just took a pledge to respect that vote amd ensure the other admins do so as well. The admins select new admins. The community can recall them at any time as well.
Fair enough!
I instance banned that person for 2 weeks (13 days expiration). Told blaze to kill himself because... he criticizied ML moderation. Oh the horror.
What a fucking ghoul. The hexbear admins do bumfuck-nothing about their users, so we have to deal with their trash. Yes yes i know there are some good users there, but in general it's just not worth it. They have horrible moderation.
I'd love to defederate but a lot of users would like to stay (ie they're bad but have some good content) so i made this issue to remedy the problem: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/5578 (not just for hexbear, ml or etc; also some other instances but that's besides the point)
(PS: @blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com i hope you don't mind me using your screenshot, i can delete if you want)
Honestly I was kinda sad to see hexbear posts again popping up on my feed, even though I enjoyed witnessing their π€‘ shit before. Just decided that my feed is happier without them and blocked the instance in Voyager app
The problem is, blocking instances still allow their comments to be seen
That's why i made the github issue c; nutomic seems interested, hopefully it will come with lemmy 1.0. It'll be a win-win for all of us.
That's good to hear!
That one person disagreeing with you has some interesting takes. They don't seem to grasp the concept of users of an instance disagreeing with each other, only of instances disagreeing with other instances like rival hiveminds.
No shade to them, but i think we're seeing this from different viewpoints; i see this from a personal preference standpoint, and they see this from some moderation stance, which was not the point at all. This isn't meant to replace defederations.
Makes me wish I bid on that domain auction...$2000 for some peace and quiet sounds like a nice deal.
I don't know this to be the case, but I've long assumed that the average age on Hexbear is about 15, and have yet to find any reason to assume otherwise.
Yeah I love the demands for revolutionary violence from people who have never been in a fight, let alone killed someone. Simply expressing that killing people, because I think I am right, is a last resort, got a bunch of .ml people on my case. I straight asked if they had killed anyone, or been in a situation where violence directed towards them put their life at risk. They all (like 5 people nothing crazy) said no, yet insisted they were up to the task, and knew they would be fine because it was necessary.
Big "if I was there when that mass shooter showed up, the shooter would have been the only dead" energy.
But couldn't they just be defederated? Isn't that how it works?
Yea, and hex and grad of the Tankie Triad are generally pretty widely defederated from. db0 is one notable instance that doesn't and this screenshot is from .ml's side of the modlog who, should go without saying, is perfectly fine federating with the rest of the triad
Trust me, we all hate them too. Not even for political positions anymore (eh, i've heard worse).
Personally i'd love to defederate, but i know a vocal minority on our instance like them, so we'll have to cope for now.
Someone's eventually going to initiate a vote on /0 governance to defederate (i know what i'm voting lol) but i also made this github issue if you're interested https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/5578
Someone's eventually going to initiate a vote on /0 governance to defederate (i know what i'm voting lol)
Must. Resist. Urge. To. Make. db0 account.
The block function should definitely be fixed, but when an instances admins are toxic and/or pushing propaganda/political agenda really, wide defederation is the only answer.
My concern is not of the people already here who a) already know of the Tankie Triad and b) makes an informed decision to block/not block based on that, but what kind of damage instances like hex and .ml can do to the wider Lemmy-verse rep on the outside. I don't want this budding place to become tainted with the stigma of being "That Tankie Place" or "Voat 2.0".
I've already come across a few comments out in the wild that Lemmy has a bunch of tankies, and it's depressing
Do it. I know I'd certainly vote to defederate Hexbear. If you do and decide to make a vote to defederate hexbear include lots of evidence so no one votes against it out of ignorance, only vocal people or those freeze peach types (I don't think there's many of those but I've seen them here on Lemmy).
Well i won't stop you ;) You'll probably get harassed to hell for it though. They're very toxic, and if i called the shots i would defederate; but the instance is democratic, and i'm not in the mood to deal with pandora's box π I already have enough going on, i don't need my inbox blown up with insults along with it :)