Have to be honest I'm not keen on the UK buying any more either I'd rather see Rafales on the new carriers or a tweaked eurofighter.
this post was submitted on 13 Mar 2025
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Asking stupid question... Isn't this kinda shit that got Kennedy killed? Fucking w the military industrial complex? Have those barons diversified enough to not care about this line of business or something? I thought this was kind of a backbone of our economy. So many jobs too.
Got to speed up the European 6th gen fighter development
That's how we get shitty aircraft. Need to speed up developing homebrew avionics for the F35s.
The F35 is trash anyways
Thank fucking god
Dunno if you'll find a more European fighter than the Gripen.
Uses a license produced engine from US (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_RM12), which has caused endless problems in exports for SAAB, since the US blocks them frequently when they are about to win a contract.
I would go for Rafale or Eurofighter and I am saying this as a swede. We need to replace the engines ASAP. Perhaps a UK, German or French one. Would probably take years to develop thought and likely a significant overhaul will be necessary.
Well, an easier fix is to just keep using the engine design, and stop paying the license fees.
What is the US gonna do? Stop supporting NATO? Put tariffs on exports to the EU? Stop being an ally, and ally themselves with Russia?
Use stolen military technology as a casus-belli maybe?
So, the US attacks a NATO member, kicking off Article 5.
Sure.
The USA is like 60% of NATO forces.
So this would more likely lead to the dissolution of NATO.
The point I was making is that the adults in the room would probably prefer to not kick the hornets nest despite preparing for the worst if the hornets nest kicks off.
The hornet nest is already kicked up... And the US is 60% of NATO right NOW. Which means Europe needs to bolster themselves. And its easier to do that without handing over half a billion bucks for nothing.
Just ignore it. Trump ignores contracts all the time. At worst? He'd just put more tariffs on the EU, because he knows not a single general will launch a war in Europe.
Yeah, I think it's best to treat the US these days like a dangerous dog you meet in an alley - don't make eye contact and back slowly away.
What about the Eurofighter?
And then there's the rafale
The Eurofighter's prettier, estranged cousin
Uses US engine
Why would anybody feel they can rely on American hardware anymore? Any country with any sense won’t be beholden to them as an ally now thanks to that idiotic mango.
Mmm.. Pretty interesting article.
They went to the fighter store and all the F-35s were turned upside down.
O mundo já mudou. Houve eleições nos EUA, houve uma posição em relação à NATO e ao mundo, afirmada pelo secretário para a Defesa e pelo próprio Presidente dos EUA, que tem que ser tida em conta também na Europa e no que tem a ver com Portugal.
E esse nosso aliado, que ao longo de décadas foi sempre previsível, poderá trazer limitações na utilização, na manutenção, nos componentes, em tudo aquilo que tem a ver com a garantia de que as aeronaves serão operacionais e serão utilizadas em todo o tipo de cenários.
Interview here, in Portuguese.
The world has already changed. There were elections in the USA, there was a position [change] regarding NATO and the world, stated by both the Defense Secretary and the President of the USA, that has to be taken into account in Europe and in Portugal.
Our ally, who through decades has always been predictable [as in steadfast], may bring limitations to using, to maintaining, to components, anything that relates to the assurance that the planes are operational and can be used in all types of scenarios.
For some context, Portugal has an aging fleet of F-16s. The national Air Force wants to replace these with F-35s, but that is no longer likely to happen.
He was asked if Portugal would instead purchase, for example, French aircraft, but he declined to answer.
hey guys, I think that trump guy might just be really awful for America.
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Yeah I got a sneaking suspicion that LMC’s gonna see a ton of options getting dropped and orders cancelled. Our government is not to be trusted. We’ll use that shit as leverage at some point.
If we assume that Portugal would have ordered the same number as Czechia (a fellow European country with a pretty close GDP, population, and military budget that already bought F-35s) and take the flyaway cost on wikipedia of $82.500,000 as the price Portugal would have paid per plane, that's $2 billion in sales that Lockheed Martin doesn't get
Portugal would probably have bought more, since we have a large area of the Atlantic Ocean that needs to be patrolled not only by sea, but also by air.
You also gotta make sure nobody tries to steal the Azores for their beautiful nature.
that's $2 billion in sales that Lockheed Martin doesn't get
And that's just the beginning.
I feel like billionaires might resolve the Trump/musk issue for us. Fucking with a defense contractor's bottom line is pretty dangerous, especially when you have private security (Musk)
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Love to see it
Portugal was lucky to get quite late aboard the F35 ship, as they decided about it as late as April 2024. Finland, where I'm from, was one of the earliest ones, deciding about the procurement in late 2022. Some other ones, as told by Wikipedia:
Canada: Jan 2023 Czechia: Jan 2024 Germany: 2023 Greece: Delivery 2027, so ordered probably in late 2023 or so? Poland: 2020, apparently some already delivered? Romania: November 2024 Singapore: Early 2024 Switzerland: delivery from 2027, so probably ordered in late 2023?
The further the procurement process, the more money might get wasted if the order has to be cancelled. Would still make sense to cancel, though, because a weapon you are free to use as long as there is no war is just a heap of scrap metal. It does not matter how much money we've already spent on the scrap metal, we should not put a cent more.
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