this post was submitted on 26 Jan 2025
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Science Memes

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[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 30 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Aargh! Okay, I'm going to fix this and the fine tuned universe argument all at once.

Nature does not care about your silly numbers and hypotheses. All of our scientific mechanics are models of the observed universe. The ones we call theories are just models good enough to be usefully predictive as to forecast outcomes, allowing us to safely land airplanes, build bridges, make safe pharmaceuticals (or super addictive ones, if we want), split atoms safely to produce power (or unsafely to level cities) and so on.

We care about the math and the numbers because they give us results that are consistent with nature. But nature is doing what it's doing because it's behaving as a giant causal engine (ever-smaller forces that drive observable phenomena, at least until we get to Planck scale). So when it comes to the fine tuned hypothesis, to quote a Texas physicist whose name I can't remember These numbers ain't for fiddlin'

If there are any storm gods at all, anywhere in the world, to the last, they are content to allow lightning to behave strictly according to static-electricity electrodynamics. And ball lightning happens whether or not we have a model that explains it. (Presently, we don't.)

If one or more of the many-worlds hypotheses are true, no given universe cares what its science-savvy inhabitants have determined and whether their mathematical models allow for models that are factual. Facts don't care about your feelings. Facts don't care about your science either. It's more that the science does is best to describe what's going on in the facts.

Irreducible complexity is solved.

PS: This also stabilizes the cosmic horror scenario of Azathoth's dream, that Azathoth gibbers in the center of the universe dreaming its whole, and each and every one of us is a mere figment, who will vanish to oblivion when eventually he awakes: From what we can observe Azathoth has been dreaming consistently for thirteen billion years, and doesn't seem to be in a hurry to wake up, and his dream is profoundly consistent so that the mathematics we use to send probes from planet to planet, eventually into the outer solar system always works. Azathoth has our back!

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[–] BananaTrifleViolin@lemmy.world 49 points 6 days ago (11 children)

Infinite doesn't mean everything. Infinite can include a repeating pattern, even a huge repeating pattern which seems random at first. Not everything you could possibly imagine would necessarily have to exist in the multiverse.

And even if infinite and perfectly random, some things may just not be feasible and just not exist.

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[–] Ultraviolet@lemmy.world 18 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

The set of all possible universes does not include impossible universes. If you assume all possible universes exist, you've already eliminated universes that are the only universe as impossible.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 34 points 6 days ago (2 children)

If there are multiple countries on the planet Earth, that must mean there's a country where the other countries don't exist.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 30 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I think that's North Korea

[–] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 19 points 6 days ago (2 children)

You spelled United States of America wrong.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 9 points 6 days ago

Most Americans acknowledge the existence of other countries, that just refuse to believe those other countries have access to electricity, plumbing, or the internet.

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[–] smiletolerantly@awful.systems 29 points 6 days ago (7 children)

Oof that reminds me...

When my partner and I had already been living together for a while, we had one of those "cuddle on the couch and deeptalk" days, when she confided that, while she was not religious in any traditional sense of the word, she felt immensely comforted by the thought of an infinite multiverse existing.
"If there's an infinite amount of parallel worlds, then I choose to believe that even if I die here, life goes on in another world, so in a sense my being and existence do not simply vanish completely. Same for you! And hey, even if we both die, we'll get to continue living together in some version of the infinite multiverse!"

It was clearly a thought that comforted her a lot, and at the same time a rather intimate belief that she chose to share with me. So, like the idiot I am, I stared her in the face blankly and went "There's an infinite amount of numbers between 0 and 1, and none of them are 2".

I really regret that. She let me know later that that one sentence shattered the belief for her. Which is sad, because it's such an innocent thought. There's no religious behaviors or conditions or rituals attached to it, it's just comforting.

[–] Cosmonauticus@lemmy.world 19 points 6 days ago (1 children)

It's comments like this that make me glad I know how to read the room

[–] smiletolerantly@awful.systems 7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

😭

I usually do, I promise. Anyways, that was 6 years ago. We're stil going strong, making the most of life in this universe :)

[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 5 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

That's a nice belief of hers but it also neglects the negatives of what that implies. If each of us had infinite variations of ourselves somewhere in a multiverse, then there are varieties where the two of you continue living a nice happy life together even if one of you dies.

However, there would also be versions where you never met and got together with other people, other versions where you hate each other, other versions where you go through terrible things together or by yourselves, versions where one of you or both are drug addicts living in the street, versions where you become millionaires but don't want to share your wealth, versions where you become supreme leaders and act like despotic authoritarian rulers or versions where both of you just never meet or connect with one another.

If there are infinite variations of ourselves out there, not all of them will be happy comforting stories. Maybe this is one of those versions that are good. Maybe this is one of the best versions.

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[–] FiskFisk33@startrek.website 24 points 6 days ago

this is stupid. The existence of an infinite number of universes does not at all imply they must represent infinite variability.

[–] rmuk@feddit.uk 25 points 6 days ago (6 children)

"If there is an infinite number of buckets, there must be a bucket where the other buckets don't exist."

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[–] MeatPilot@lemmy.world 24 points 6 days ago

I know one thing that's absolutely true about the multiverse!

The multiverse is a convenient excuse to reboot superheroes for a new audience to make money.

[–] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 17 points 6 days ago

This is illogical. That is all.

[–] itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Don't you love it when people say random, illogical bullshit that sounds vaguely sciency and pretends to be deep?

[–] null@slrpnk.net 15 points 6 days ago

Of course not, I hate jokes

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[–] samus12345@lemm.ee 10 points 6 days ago (2 children)

The multiverse either exists or it doesn't. Individual universes have no influence over that.

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[–] lunarul@lemmy.world 18 points 6 days ago (1 children)
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[–] Chronographs@lemmy.zip 18 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I’d argue that multiverse theory being true would be a property of the multiverse, not a property of any individual universe, but the ‘infinity not including all possibilities’ part is true too

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[–] answersplease77@lemmy.world 13 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I have not seen not even on paper a universe which allows casual paradoxes like that comment says

[–] BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee 21 points 6 days ago (1 children)

because you arent in the universe that has that paper

[–] milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee 7 points 6 days ago

It's being suppressed by Big Paper. Or by Big Universe.

[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

If there is an infinite Multiverse, there is a universe where the inhabitants believe the Multiverse doesn't exist, doesn't make it true.

If there is no infinite Multiverse, the inhabitants could also believe that it exist.

No paradoxes.

Edit: A computer can run Virtual Machines, but there could be some VMs where another VM can be run, while other VMs have some "system corruption" that make the VMs impossible, but VMs still exist. Just because one VM cannot run VMs within itself, doesn't nullify the existence VMs

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[–] Zepp@kbin.earth 1 points 4 days ago

Well yes, but actually no.

[–] ekZepp@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago (1 children)
[–] SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee 8 points 6 days ago

I never realized I til this moment that is a TF2 model.

there is a universe full to the brim with chickens, all that chicken space.

[–] Zerush@lemmy.ml 6 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Lol, good joke but wrong, even existing an infinite number of Universe, to be stables they need a infinite number of physical conditions, if not they can't exist. A multiverse, even if there are formong an infinite number of universes, most of them are destroyed in the same moment when are not present this conditions, even so it can exist an infinite number of survivor universes with the correct conditions (∞/n = ∞), paradox conditions are not among these (apart of the infinite itself, used in physics)

[–] shasta@lemm.ee 12 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (5 children)

Multiverse theory does not necessarily mean infinite universes to cover all possibilities, just multiple universes.

[–] Kyuuketsuki@lemmy.ml 8 points 6 days ago

It's a common trend for people that don't understand that infinite possibilities do not mean every possibility.

The way I usually explain this to people is that the quantity of even number is also infinite, but that doesn't mean you'll ever find a value of three in that infinite range.

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[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 6 points 6 days ago (14 children)

It's funny, outside of Hollywood, Comic Books, and Bertrand Russel trying to disprove religion by taking Hawking out of context, is there any real evidence for a multiverse?

I mean I believe that reality is truly infinite and the only reason we have limitations is because we haven't found a way around them yet (Science distinguishable from magic is not sufficiently advanced in my book), so I'm not calling bullshit, but I'm also asking for evidence beyond going "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if?"

[–] fsxylo@sh.itjust.works 7 points 6 days ago (4 children)

It was always a hypothesis that filled in a math equation but has no proof.

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