What about other government workers, such as military, teachers, social workers, etc?
Cop unions are the worst unions. It's like a doctor's union that protects doctors from malpractice lawsuits. That's not what they are for.
this post was submitted on 26 Jan 2025
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Why fly a fascist flag?
That union is always on the wrong side of support for other unions. ACAB forever.
I mean it'd be one thing if they lobbied for better working conditions and training. But they lobby to militarize themselves and thats a problem. At least in America.
Here in the US they pretty much all do. And yes, 100% of labor should be unionized.
Yup. And while police unions are awful it's a call to fix how police unions are formed and supported rather than deunionizing the police entirely.
The saying is a bad apple spoils the bunch and there are a fuckton of bad apples in the police.
Police aren't labour. Labour operate the means of production for the ruling class. The police use violence against labour to support the ruling class. It's an important distinction.
Yes, that's the reality. But if they actually operated the way people have been led to believe they do, then they would be as much of a labor force as the fire department.
We should talk about getting the police to actually being the fairy tale people think it is first, though.
That is impossible. If they didn't do violence to citizens of a state on behalf of the state, then they are not police. They would be something else. A "citizen service league" or something.
Yeah, treat other working stiffs as the enemy, that'll help.
Change hiring practices, change training, police can be a benefit.
No. It will not help. The problem is not the individuals we hire. It is the job we hire them for. The JOB is not labour. It is violence. The purpose of the police is to maintain the state's "legitimate monopoly on violence." The reason every police officer exists in every nation is to do violence against members of a state on behalf of that state's needs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence
Police are not labour and this is well known. So well known that technically, police in North America (and likely other jurisdictions) are not allowed to form unions. If you take a close look at the "police unions" in North America, you will find that they are all actually "police associations." They don't enjoy the same rights and powers as an actual union, but they adopt all the trappings so that people don't realize, and don't think about the true relationship between citizen, state, and the police.
And policing isn’t labor. So police unions should not exist.
I think it would be considered non-productive labor in the Marxist sense.
Oh they're capital are they? I didn't know they were ownership class.
They protect the ownership class FROM labor.
Cops serve and protect capital, not you. There is never going to be a situation where law enforcement doesn't become authoritarian and only protect those in power. Law enforcements has routinely shown they are class traitors and have no qualms supporting corporations in crushing unions. Cops should not exist, let alone have unions, which will only ever be used to protect themselves from facing consequences and taking accountability. All WORKERS should be unionized. Cops are not workers, they are class traitors who wouldn't think twice about arresting you for trying to use your union to get better working conditions. 40% of cops are abusers, and they only solve 2% of crime. Studies show rehabilition and restorative justice as well as providing people with their basic needs is more effective at reducing crime and protecting people. Abolish the police, abolish prisons, ACAB
Everyone should form unions. Collective bargaining is the best and only realistic way to stand against capitalist overreach.
That being said, a union of assholes is still a giant bag of assholes. The issue is that unions for anyone can't be able to bypass responsibility and ethics. If they can, and the cop unions do, there's a problem. They do need to be able to provide members with protection from false accusations, but police unions end up making it hard to remove officers from duty at all, even when the officer should be facing criminal charges.
But saying that a group of employees can't organize because of the job is just bullshit. Remember Regan and the ATC workers?
Even the military should be able to, though I don't know how in the hell that would work in practice.
I'm not saying that unions are perfect, they aren't. Police unions are a perfect example of how flawed they can end up. But they're still the best tool we have as a populace, and everyone should be able to negotiate collectively
If it doesn't have the legal powers of a union, then it's not a union. It would be impossible to have a military that is unionized in any meaningful sense of the word. Yes, they still have the power of collectivism, and they should still use that power to their common advantage, but that doesn't make it a union.
Yeah, I can't see it actually working right at all. It's contrary to how a military body works.