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Do you know what happens when societal structure collapses?
People with power and wealth accumulate more power and wealth.
People with the means and willingness to do violence acquire power and wealth from the vulnerable.
People without power, wealth and the means to do violence die.
Accelerationism is the ideology of idiots.
Accelerationism is the ideology of privileged idiots.
FTFY
People who never faced strife support accelerationism, let's see how you like it when you not only get beaten by the people above you but also beside you
Truer words were never spoken
Sometimes people here are just too eager for societal collapse.
I like having running water, hot and cold, safe and clean enough to drink it.
I like having a toilet that I just flush my crap away.
These will no longer be available during a societal collapse.
When people are at the point where they are literally dying because they can't afford to live, you have to say there's not much else to lose.
The powerful just try and keep that balance of having enough people fall into poverty to keep everyone else in line, and avoiding having too many people in poverty so that we don't all eat them like we're supposed to.
Have you looked at the current political climate? That's under threat as-is, might as well go down swinging
“Bad thing is already on the table, let’s make it happen for sure!”
🤦♂️
And then everyone who can't grow or rob their calories would be fucked.
Cool and then you and your family and loved ones starve, don’t get the medical attention and maintenance they need, same with meds, emergency services, etc.
Don’t forgot you’re one of the fucking morons living inside and depending on the society you’re gleefully imagining collapse. So many innocents will be killed just from the fall of all of these services and whatnot.
What is "wage garnishment" for 200
That requires a court order, could you imagine the shit show the court system would be for companies everywhere to get court ordered wage garnishment against even 50/60% of the population lol shit would grind to a halt
Or they could just do it and force you to go through the courts to stop them
I'm all for an organized, mass bill payment "strike" and some businesses would be effected, though not really any very large companies, who would benefit the most from having their competitors go out of business (and forced to sell or merge their assets for a fraction of their value) than we would by saving $100-200 per month, which we would spend, corporations would raise prices, and all of that money just flows back to the banks anyway.
Now tenant organizing and rent strikes, that's where you can actually fuck shit up and make demands many times. But like your gas company doesn't give I shit, you just won't have heat, fuck you.
It would be nice if this was true but it still based on the illusion of a free market
Fun fact: Most red states derive a significant portion of their tax revenue from sales tax. In some places (like Texas) it accounts for 80% of the state's budget. If enough people significantly reduced their spending in red states, they could cripple the government and break no laws or contracts that would expose them to legal liabilities.
What would crippling the government do other than massively harm regular people? Fight the real enemy, the billionaire class
The government is a tool of the billionaire class. Weakening it weakens their power. Also any buying nothing movement would harm the billionaires much more than the government.
You know that "defeating" the billionaires would screw over everyone on earth more than toppling the government of Florida or Texas? They have so much power removing their wealth, especially suddenly would destroy the global economy..
Any solution to the larger problem of oligarchy is going to hurt everyday americans. Buying nothing would at least give them extra money in their pocket to adapt to the changes.
You wont weaken the government by not paying biills. We don't want a weaker state we want to smash the state and create a new one for and by workers not billionaires. How does weakening the government weaken their power? Right now the government is weaker than its been in 70 years and the billionaires are more powerful than ever.
I agree that a united, militant workers movement will weaken various structures that the rich use to reinforce their rule, including parts of the government but I think you need to develop your view of the state under capitalism because you still subscribe yo many false illusions. Its like people saying Luigi is going to tip the balance in class relations for the workers. Its just a kind of reformism or false consciousness that hopes that there is a step before what is necessary that would be good enough.
Organized mass payment strikes, I think strategically, like in healthcare, a mass movement could shake some things up, but likely it would just result in increased violence against the movement. Individuals not paying bills will literally not do shit. Individual action is basically worthless. In order for it to reach a critical tipping point, where a quantity of individual action transforms into change in political or economic quality, will take a lot of organization. And more power to you! Organize it and I'll likely join. I'll throw you a bone, but you have to provide the meat. Personally it's not what I think is going to lead to greater worker consciousness and emancipation, but I'm just some guy. Organize it and prove me wrong.
I think we're misaligned because my unstated goal is to reduce the risk to migrants and trans people from a tyrannical government. Reducing state power would greatly reduce their ability to round up immigrants and dick over the queer community. It would mean less money to pay police to be assholes at the very least.
It's also a safe in-point for people wanting to take direct action but afraid of the legal consequences of more glamorous activities.
Buying nothing, buying less, buying used, buying local (in that order) is easy-ish for most people, saves them money, and breaks no laws or contracts. Not paying your bills is a dumb idea, but not buying shit you don't need is a win win for individuals. It would take several years to build a critical mass and if people change their relationship to consumption it would be easier to sustain that pressure.
No temporary strike, protest, or other action will save us. We need long term personal change that will slowly starve out the billionaire class and their lackies.
I am trying to organize a national buy nothing campaign, but the only resources I have are grass roots tools, like rambling in internet comments and writing weird zines. I'd suggest trying to reduce your personal spending by 20% and encourage people you know personally to do the same, if everyone did that the powers that be will take notice and in 18 months we'd see change.
You had me till your last sentence which I think is reformist, but since you stated your position so well im sure we could (hypothetically) work together in coalition.
I think its clear that there is a great deal of consumerism that exists in excess of peoples needs, but without a means to replace it with anything, since the consumerism is an expression of people's social alienation, then there's no material incentive for people to make these changes. It seems like the thrust of your ideas would work well along side certain anarchist and social libertarian ideas of dual power, which I think is also worth of criticisms but also is a step closer theoretically to a correct formula for change.
Confusion about the government's role in class oppression, unawareness of what money is and how it operates, these are big questions that took me a long time to find sufficient and satisfying answers for them. If your like to share your zines or writings I'd at least give them a look! I read and contribute political and economic articles to some zines too, and frankly I'm just a fan of the form. I'm a bit older and diy zines were the first polisci I ever encountered, and now I'm a smelly commie, on watchlists and everything
I would say pragmatist, rather than a reformist. Reform makes the least mess to clean up after and leaves the smallest window for a hypothetical Joe the Billionaire from starting an actual monarchy after the overthrow of the system. If I had my way we'd replace the constitution with a new one that establishes a strong, expanded bill of right and the power to enforce it at a national level and all other decisions would be made at a city or county level, with state governments becoming caretakers and losing all legislative, executive, and judicial power beyond what's needed to maintain the roads and grid(s).
Replacing consumerism as a means of validation and acceptance is easier than it looks. Alienation is a combination of disenfranchisement, social rejection, and a lack of agency. The "buy nothing, buy less, buy used, buy local" is part of the zine I'm currently writing. The idea is that you replace consumerism with community. Buy nothing groups, swap meets, farmer's markets, flea markets, craigslist meets all provide real human interaction and social validation. Actively trying to avoid any money possible going to billionaires and corrupt state coffers means more time spent shopping, specifically in meatspace, rather than online (where huge chunks of your money go to billionaires).
I've actually been working on compiling all of the zine and essay content into a website, I will make a note and drop you a link when it goes live (months still, but this year). If I wasn't already on a watch list (old crusty anarchist), I will absolutely be on one when that goes up, lol.
I mean I guess as a Marxist there are just some things we have fundamentally different understandings? The way you talk about consumerism and alienation, is fundamentally opposed to a Marxist's definition. To a Marxist alienation isn't subjective, it is material; a result of workers slavish relation to commodity production, as the relation that generates surplus value.
But I'm trying to back off of explicitly anarchist critiques, and kind of begrudgingly think about your basic conceptions. I've spent enough time around anarchists and Marxists to know that there's something sort of broken there, broken by history. And I know enough about anarchists, who kind of effortlessly organize circles around us, and the history of anarchism as it relates to various socialist projects of the 20th century, than to do what many of my comrades do, and just like quote "On Authority" to y'all as if it has ever made a lick of difference. I guess to put it plainly: I can understand why an anarchist wouldn't necessarily be all for a Marxist or Leninist conception of revolution, might advocate for a measure of caution and search for a "third way". I won't be convinced that money is anything other than a mechanism of class oppression, and the value form itself is actually a tremendous mind fuck, accounting for the alienation that workers experience.
What I think I really don't understand, is the anarchist conception of the individual, like, in a scientific way. There's something "in the sauce" that I can't account for in our analysis, something that overlaps with a great deal of the working class. But if we are comrades in sharing and binding ourselves to the struggles of workers then that's basically what's most important. It isnt right to demand that you adhere to "correct" theoretical analysis when there is something I dont understand about like one of anarchism's fundamental concepts, something that seems to be very "right" that comes from your tradition, something that I can't just dismiss as "petty bourgeois" or liberal.
So more power to ya, friend. I'd love to read anything you come out with.
No they wouldn't
The second it became clear this was a larger theme they would sell the debt at a premium to the debt collectors
If it somehow got to the point of hurting a utility or big company government would ride in to the rescue
Reminds me of those chain text messages about kids skipping school. "They can't give us all detentention!" I don't remember it ever working though.
Yes, they absolutely could give you all detention.
Besides, most kids actually understand the point of school.
Finally, I get the support I need to get started on that fasting diet I've been considering
That's true and part of me would love to see that, but some utilities (such as water and electric) going under would probably be a bad thing if there wasn't a plan to swoop in and bring them under public control right away. Otherwise, things would get bad really quick in a lot of places if power and water stopped being available for everyone for an extended time. Things like hospitals, grocery stores, repair shops, etc. would all be working at greatly reduced capacity and capability. Barring a full-on revolution where the people could seize these utilities for public ownership and operate it themselves, I don't see that happening because the government would be likely to simply bail out a lot of the companies, or they'd be bought up and probably end up being consolidated by an even fewer number of people.
It would take years. This is a dumb take. Now not spending our money at big corporations and giving a little extra to the small places WILL help over time. And everyone can survive.
accelerationists love this trick
They'd also stop providing whatever service they provide, which is why nobody will actually follow through on this.
Not taking a side on this. Instead asking a question and hoping for someone to explain
Those who do not support the idea of this kind of strike, do you support the idea of a general strike? A collection work-stoppage? If so, what is the fundamental difference? I have my opinions, but I really want to know yours.
Also, I fucking love mid-sentence exclamation points. It makes me happy every time I see it.
They'll both accomplish the same thing, except my meme does it without risk to the individual losing their job since in the US there is no protection from termination unless you're already in a union and not working due to an official union action
Well, there are no consequence free actions in any kind of scenario such as this. Lose your job for a general strike. Lose your utilities for a bill paying strike. Lose your job and you can't pay your utilities. Lose your utilities and you can't shower and will lose your job. Either way you're fucked. The only solution is to make sure you have enough people willing to join to make it impossible, or as close to impossible as possible, to ignore your demands.
Lose your utilities for a bill paying strike.
Most places in the US have to wait months before they can disconnect utilities, a lot of them they cant even disconnect heat utilities at all during the winter
In the US there are more protections around utilities than there are around an individual's job, go figure lol
There are pros and cons either way, but the way I see it, based on the better protections surrounding utilities, it's better to go this route.
Also, this is a meme on c/shitpost, not an ironed out plan ready to ship out lol
I think the important part of any kind of mass action is the mass part. We need to get millions, not thousands, behind it. And we could. There are enough people sympathetic to the cause, we just aren't as organized as we should be. And that's by design of the state and capital
Jesus Christ now any revolution is accelerationism, huh? And this is the response on Lemmy of all places. We really are doomed.
Debtor's Jail 'bouta come back
Bro actually wants to die faster LMAO 🤣
Why don't you try flying off a building?