this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2024
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No Stupid Questions

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For the record, I’m not American nor live in the US, but I have a 19-year-old son who started attending the University of Chicago this year, studying economics. Just the tuition itself is $70k. My husband and I are lucky enough to be able to afford it - I still believe it’s an outrageous amount of money to attend college.

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[–] unknown1234_5@kbin.earth 4 points 1 hour ago

side effects of Boomer economic policies and their ignorance regarding the changes they caused

[–] circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 2 hours ago

Same reason everything in the US is expensive: we have largely unregulated, runaway capitalism which pervades every facet of life. Everything from housing to academia to health care is for profit -- not only profit, but for obscene year-over-year increases in profit. Those at the top regularly make money hand over fist even selling basic necessities, and if they don't continue taking more and more, they're seen as failures and replaced by one who will.

The cherry on top is that, for the most parts, the citizens no longer have any real power to change any of it.

Around the same time that health care becomes affordable in the US (major hypothetical, of course), it probably means a wind change has occurred such that university costs would also be coming down. But it would be a systematic change.

[–] yournamehere@lemm.ee 5 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

learning is just a sidehustle to the sports franchise they run?

[–] beefbot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 44 minutes ago

Idk why you phrased that as a question as if it isn’t pretty obvious

[–] NABDad@lemmy.world 2 points 1 hour ago

My parents paid for me to attend a private university in the late 80's, for which I'm both extremely fortunate and grateful.

I wanted to do the same for my children, but there was no way. I pay half, my parents pay half, and my kids have very small loans.

I was experiencing significant disappointment that I wasn't able to pay for my kids' education the way my parents paid for mine.

At one point I used an inflation calculator to get an idea of how much my education cost in today's dollars, and it turns out that when it's corrected for inflation, I'm paying what my parents paid. My kids' education is more than twice as expensive as mine was if you correct for inflation.

[–] stinerman@midwest.social 7 points 2 hours ago

This is a private school so they don't get much in the way of direct government funding. State-funded schools are considerably cheaper. I went to Wright State University in Ohio. Right now it's about $13k/yr in tuition. This is still rather expensive on a global scale.

Why do private schools charge that much? Because people (like you) will pay that much. What about the University of Chicago makes it so that you are willing pay for it? What do you or your son hope to get out of it that a school in your home country (I'm assuming Canada) can't give him? To compare to Wright State, even for out-of-country students the tuition is less than half of Chicago's tuition. Is the benefit of going to Chicago worth that much more? If it is, then that is exactly what you're paying for.

[–] morphballganon@lemmy.world 4 points 2 hours ago

Corporate greed.

[–] DarkFuture@lemmy.world 3 points 2 hours ago

Because there's nothing more American than getting ripped off.

[–] OfCourseNot@fedia.io 15 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Because people are still paying it. That's how you set the price of things. If people are paying 70k why would you sell it cheaper?

[–] cRazi_man@lemm.ee 8 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

If you can charge for something mandatory (minimum requirement for a decent job, house, healthcare) then you can set whatever price you want for it. You just need to push it to the limit of what people can finance to keep paying for over their whole lives.

[–] explore_broaden@midwest.social 1 points 48 minutes ago

Going to a private university certainly isn’t a requirement, and in-state tuition for public universities is much, much lower (but still too high).

[–] originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com 97 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

because america is the land of profit over humans. its just that simple.

its ingrained in the entire country. if some rando at the top isnt profiting, it must be killed. its the problem with healthcare. its the problem with government (congress). its the reason we are entrenched in a 2-party hellscape.

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 8 points 6 hours ago

And if the university of Chicago is that "Chicago school of economics" then this kid is going to come out the other end repesting close to what you said, but as a positive. :(

[–] astanix@lemmy.world 6 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

Is that just America though? Are there other countries where profit isn't king?

[–] BmeBenji@lemm.ee 16 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

I’m pretty confident the French wouldn’t stand for “rule by profit”

[–] DebatableRaccoon@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

I'm afraid I don't have good news...

[–] PP_BOY_@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

I'd put money down to Kickstart a documentary series where we fly American Redditors (and Lemm users) to Europe to film their reaction when they see that, yes, they still need to pay for items with money (and perform labor to get the money! 😱😱)

[–] BmeBenji@lemm.ee 1 points 1 hour ago

I mean, I’m aware that France has a capitalist economy. I mostly meant to say that Americans let capitalists step all over them in many ways that the French would riot over

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[–] Bronzebeard@lemm.ee 52 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (8 children)

Because Reagan defunded public secondary education. And then instead of fixing that in the late 90s/early 00s, they made school loans non expungable and federally guaranteed, so schools didn't need to keep their prices low and competitive anymore.

It always goes back to Reagan...

[–] s38b35M5@lemmy.world 14 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

This is the real answer I was looking for in the comments.

Edit: it always goes back to Reagan.

Why did unions lose their power? Reagan threatened striking ATC workers with firing if they didn't return to work immediately. Suddenly striking workers could be fired.

Why did weed become a life sentence drug? Reagan.

Who demonized the poor on welfare, calling them welfare queens? Who is Ronald Reagan, Alex?

Deregulated Wall street, banking and commerce sector, too.

If there's a glaring problem with the USA, there's a very good chance it dates back to RR.

[–] whotookkarl@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago

The government also ramped up the interest rates on student loans while universities increased the price faster than inflation, I paid around 3-4% in 2008, the lowest was around 2.7% in 2020, currently they are close to 7%. The whole thing should be covered by state and federal taxes we're already paying to subsidize them, but it just keeps getting worse to squeeze every drop of blood from people who weren't born with a trust fund.

[–] microphone900@lemmy.ml 28 points 6 hours ago

Jesus Christ, so many people don't know the real history of what happened while this is the real answer.

To add on to Ronald "Fucking" Reagan defunding universities, he did it because as governor of California he absolutely hated the anti-Vietnam War protests happening on University of California campuses and thought a good way to limit attendance of 'rabble rousing' (re: poor) students was to take away their funding. Conservatives nationwide saw this and thought 'that's great, we should do that, too.' and they did.

Thanks Ronnie. You're the unwanted microwaved dog shit that ruined America 40 years and your stink is still smelled in full force to this day. I didn't believe in hell, but I hope they made a special one just for you.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

Yep, this needs to be higher. Since student loans are guaranteed and pushed on all students, universities have been spending oodles of fucking money to justify higher tuition costs, which justifies bigger loans that can never be discharged. The banks win, the schools win, the student lose both academically and financially.

Public universities could actually have stricter requirements on who could go to college, because if it's already funded by taxes, you don't want to be throwing money away on students who will fail out of the degree path they're trying to pursue.

Finally, two words: "Legacy Admissions"

[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 5 points 6 hours ago

While true overall, University of Chicago is an elite private school with a hedge fund sized endowment with vast majority of students coming from families who pay 70k with two checks two weeks before each semester starts.

This how they stay elite.

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[–] merthyr1831@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 hours ago

There's probably more at play, but the govt is willing to back companies offering loans to cover higher and higher tuition costs, so said companies haven't got to worry if the loans default or don't return the full amount - it's about setting an exorbitant "graduate tax" to keep a permanent stream of guaranteed income for as long as possible.

Higher loans means more repayments, and more money for universities, so they both raise tuition higher and higher to meet the limits of students. as long as banks or govt don't ever ask for their loans back (which they won't because it'll collapse the whole system and possibly the economy with it) the price can inflate at much at it likes.

the same is at play in the UK, only we have "tuition caps" that every university course sets their prices to because there is simply no benefit to charging less, and no downside to charging more. Everyone can get a loan, no one is denied, and the government backs this process because it is essentially being held at ransom.

I know I turned it into a rant about UK education but the financial systems feel very similar. There's simply too much money held up in a make believe cycle of IOUs that would immediately collapse a huge chunk of the American system if anyone willingly let it pop.

The only problem with this is that eventually it might just pop on its own, and no one will be ready.

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 25 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

US universities engage in price discrimination between different students.

For public schools, there is different tuition between in state and out of state students. There are also some state government programs based on merit and financial considerations.

For well endowed private schools, the universities will provide scholarships based on a variety of reasons. For students from rich families, those families are generally paying full price and there generally is the implication of additional donations.

[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 9 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

This is the reason. Every public school, like University of Chicago, has non-resident pricing that's typically two to four times higher than in-state resident tuition. Source: used to work at a state university.

The original idea was probably to encourage people to stay within their state and boost the state economy, but greed from the admins kinda changed the nature of things.

[–] scarabic@lemmy.world 7 points 5 hours ago

Given that state taxes heavily support higher education, it’s not the craziest idea in the world to give lower tuition to those who’ve been paying those taxes their whole lives.

[–] TuEstUnePommeDeTerre@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

The University of Chicago is private. The University of Illinois Chicago is public. They have the added issue the people definitely use the names interchangeably because they don't know there's more than one.

[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 3 points 5 hours ago

When I worked at the state University, we had lists to check that stuff. Sometimes it's obvious, other times, not so much. Good catch!

[–] KRAW@linux.community 6 points 5 hours ago

Administrative bloat. At my university, if my lab lands a grant, 60% goes to the university and only 40% is used for actual research. There's a long chain of people whose jobs are to answer emails, and they all need to be paid.

[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 16 points 7 hours ago

Tuition is also higher for international students.

[–] demesisx@infosec.pub 11 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (5 children)

The politicians of the US took massive payouts from the banking industry in exchange for commodifying anything and everything that people need. Back in ~~2008~~ 2005, Biden himself took a $250,000 bribe from MBNA to make it illegal to escape student loans even in bankruptcy.

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[–] ReadMoreBooks@lemmy.zip 2 points 4 hours ago

If we can reason and communicate effectively then we're much harder to exploit.

Education is priced above the balance of supply and demand because in wider scope it's more profitable to deny access.

Denial of access to education is a very good way to leave many people with violence as their only practical means of change.

[–] SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.works 8 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

Depends on the school but yes it's ridiculous. For a while it seemed like everyone was encouraged to attend college but now it seems like trade schools are coming back in a big way. I think people realise they aren't going to get anything useful for the time and money they put in for the jobs they want

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[–] Lauchs@lemmy.world 5 points 6 hours ago

A lot of folks are overlooking one of the largest factors, unlimited student loans for whatever.

As long as people have access to an ever increasing amount of money to use for tuition, it is in those institutions' interests to rise their prices to extract as much as possible.

Whereas other countries tend to subsidize their education at source, that is to say, by funding the schools directly which somehwat obviates the price gouging aspect.

[–] rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works 4 points 6 hours ago

Because it's worth it!

lol jk

[–] Coreidan@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago

Greed. Come on were you really expecting a different response?

[–] MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world 6 points 7 hours ago

Higher Ed is just another broken cog in the American machine. I'm lucky to live in a state that recently made Community College free for state residents that don't already have a college degree.

I'm seriously considering finding a nursing program. I've already been in the medical field for 38 years.

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