this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2024
366 points (98.2% liked)

Showerthoughts

32169 readers
777 users here now

A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. The most popular seem to be lighthearted clever little truths, hidden in daily life.

Here are some examples to inspire your own showerthoughts:

Rules

  1. All posts must be showerthoughts
  2. The entire showerthought must be in the title
  3. No politics
    • If your topic is in a grey area, please phrase it to emphasize the fascinating aspects, not the dramatic aspects. You can do this by avoiding overly politicized terms such as "capitalism" and "communism". If you must make comparisons, you can say something is different without saying something is better/worse.
    • A good place for politics is c/politicaldiscussion
  4. Posts must be original/unique
  5. Adhere to Lemmy's Code of Conduct and the TOS

If you made it this far, showerthoughts is accepting new mods. This community is generally tame so its not a lot of work, but having a few more mods would help reports get addressed a little sooner.

Whats it like to be a mod? Reports just show up as messages in your Lemmy inbox, and if a different mod has already addressed the report, the message goes away and you never worry about it.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

I.e. 100k embezzlement gets you 2.5 years

Edit.

I meant this to be the national average income (40k if I round up for cleaner math), not based on the individuals income, it's a static formula.

Crime$$$/nat. Avg. Income = years in jail

100k/40k = 2.5 years

1mill /40k=25 years

My thoughts were, if they want to commit more crime but lessen the risk, they just need to increase the average national income. Hell, I'd throw them a bone adjust their sentences for income inflation.

Ie

Homie gets two years (80k/40k=2), but the next year average national income jumps to 80k (because it turns out actually properly threatening these fuckers actually works, who'd've figured?), that homies sentence gets cut to a year he gets out on time served. Call it an incentive.

Anyways, more than anything, I'm sorry my high in the shower thought got as much attention as it did.

Good night

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] xapr@lemmy.sdf.org 76 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

Instead, punishment for ALL crime should be proportional to the perpetrator's annual income. That's how they do it in Finland (and it seems also some ~~other~~ Scandinavian countries), for instance. They have had at least a couple of instances of over $100k speeding tickets, for example. This makes incredibly SOOOO much sense that it will never happen in most capitalist countries.

Some references: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland-home-of-the-103000-speeding-ticket/387484/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/06/finnish-businessman-hit-with-121000-speeding-fine

[–] essell@lemmy.world 22 points 3 months ago (4 children)

I'd like to point out that Finland is not Scandinavian, because they'd want me to

[–] positiveWHAT@lemmy.world 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[–] essell@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

I believe they'd say Nordic

[–] Droechai@lemm.ee 4 points 3 months ago

But it should be, since the mountain range that gives Scandinavia its name does stretch into Finland

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

They have had at least a couple of instances of over $100k speeding tickets, for example.

I've become rather favorable of the idea ticketing proportional to income/capital. It's always bothered me that, in a system where everyone pays the same ticket price, essentially, a rich person can just eat a ticket as simply the cost of driving. I think that it should affect them at the same magnitude as anyone else. One thing that pops into my mind, however, is what happens if someone gets their ticket payed for by someone else? For example, what happens if a rich parent's child gets a speeding ticket? The child, who may have a very low income, and, as a result, a very low ticket price comparatively, could have that ticket payed for by their parents, so the punishment wouldn't affect them as much as someone else who was poorer.

[–] xapr@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 3 months ago

Yes, it makes an incredible amount of sense to fine people proportionally to wealth/income. I don't know what they do to prevent the scenario you're describing, but would hope that they have addressed that possibility.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] neidu3@sh.itjust.works 55 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Revenue, not income. Income and profits are too easy to hide.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] breadsmasher@lemmy.world 51 points 3 months ago (6 children)

It should be proportional to the personal income of whoever committed the crime

[–] Yawweee877h444@lemmy.world 64 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Net worth, not income.

All net worth including stocks, property, etc.

[–] AdamEatsAss@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago

Oh no. My collection or rare mighty beans.

[–] essell@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Farmers getting a hard time on this policy

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] BeatTakeshi@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

Those sweet, sweet unrealised gains

[–] PunnyName@lemmy.world 15 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

And if a company is the perpetrator, it might just have to go out of business or be acquired by the government.

[–] Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 months ago

Similar to what I mentioned here, assuming that the punishment is a fine, what happens if that person simply gets their fine payed for by someone else? They could artificially lower their income, and pay their fine through a proxy.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 15 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Make fines for companies breaking the law to make money a percentage of the profit generated from it, with a base percentage of 125%.

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

but that would disincentivize their activities. wow, very anti-business bro, don't be such a pinko

[–] lseif@sopuli.xyz 5 points 3 months ago

exactly. not so much of a 'free' market when businesses cant even break the law

[–] Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

with a base percentage of 125%.

Given that that is greater than 100%, what would you say happens if they don't have the resources to pay that extra 25%?

[–] LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

I would assume bankruptcy if you couldnt pay it off.

If someone steals a TV from Walmart they don't get to keep the TV and pay $100 dollars in fines. It would make sense they have to pay 100% of the TV if it isn't confiscated back, and then "damages" on top of it.

That's the idea I got from reading what they said

[–] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 14 points 3 months ago (2 children)

So if I have a net loss for the year, I’ll get paid to commit crimes?

[–] metaStatic@kbin.earth 10 points 3 months ago

I like the way you think, you would do well in the Australian property ~~racket~~ market

[–] Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 months ago

Perhaps there could be a mandatory minimum fine?

[–] frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Why imprison? 100k means you work for free at chipotle until you pay it off.

[–] Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Hm, garnering wages in this way (ie as if paying off a debt which matches the cost of their crime) might disproportionally affect the poor. For example, assuming no overhead, a person who makes 50k year could pay off a 100k in 2 years, whereas a person who makes 10k a year would pay it off in 10. This may actually have an effect opposite of what OP seemed to be intending — the punishment should have equal weight to everyone.

Perhaps a way to improve your idea to mitigate the mentioned issue would be to also scale the total fine to be repayed by income. Sort of like a progressive income tax.

[–] frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I don't think you read what I said: if mr white collar criminal steals $100k he works at chipotle for however long it takes to pay it off. Not at his old job. At chipotle.

If it were his old job, agreed 100

We can make this progressive by for example adjusting the employer by crime. 200k: mcd's. 500k: Walmart. 1m+: your states dmv.

[–] Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Ahh, yeah, I think I did misunderstand you — my bad! I didn't realize that you were describing something like indentured servitude.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Is the embezzler a $7.25 or otherwise minimum wage worker or a well-paid nepo baby?

[–] AdamEatsAss@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

He's a tipped employee.

[–] deadcatbounce@reddthat.com 6 points 3 months ago

Trouble is that charging, let alone convicting, the establishment of financial crimes has always been all but impossible.

In the UK, Boris giving huge taxpayer's cash to his mates for pointless never-delivered contracts. Post Office crimes against postmasters for false convictions waved away because they still control the NHS. That list is endless.

[–] Lupo@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago (5 children)

To clarify, I meant national average. As in, an average American makes 40k a year, white collar crime 1 mil, get 25 years since that's how long it would take an average American to get 1 mil.

[–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Just seems like the poor get punished, while the rich don't.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

100k would probably get someone 8 months.

If they are higher up it would be like 4 months

[–] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I think they are saying time-served would be based on the value of the crime divided by the median income. In OPs example, median income is 50k.

[–] plunging365@lemm.ee 4 points 3 months ago

plus televised caning.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I think it should be all the money you made from the crime + punitive damages based on a percentage of the total amount of money you stole/defrauded.

It just needs to be completely unprofitable to break the law, in any circumstance (it doesn't necessarily have to be a financial crime). If the fines take away less money than you make continuing to break the law, that's just the cost of business. The punishment need to actually deter the crime by making such crimes unprofitable.

[–] tehWrapper@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago (4 children)

I have no income.. does that mean I can hold up a bank?

[–] ilovededyoupiggy@sh.itjust.works 6 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Whatever you get from the holdup counts as income, so your fine will just be a percentage of that.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›