this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2024
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Afaik this happened with every single instance of a communist country. Communism seems like a pretty good idea on the surface, but then why does it always become autocratic?

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[–] frankPodmore@slrpnk.net 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Lots of good answers here - it's the kind of question where lots of explanations are partly correct. For me, the decision by early communists to advocate for violent revolution as the only or main way of bringing about communism is a key factor.

It's pretty common for revolutions to produce dictators, going right back to the fall of the Roman Republic. Ironically, the Roman Civil War that preceded the fall was won by the populares - the people's movement, as opposed to the optimates, the aristocracy. And yet, the end result was the abolition of the tribunes, which had been the people's branch of the legislature, and the establishment of the Dictatorship of Julius Caesar, then the Principate of his nephew, Augustus, who we now regard as having been the first Roman Emperor. It wouldn't be accurate to project back our exact ideas of democracy or class politics to the Romans, but it's pretty telling that one of the first explicitly 'class-based' civil wars in history turned out this way.

Many centuries later, the Wars of the Three Kingdoms in the British Isles had a similar outcome: the royalists were defeated by the parliamentarians, only for the victorious generals to set up one of their own as what we would now call a dictator (Oliver Cromwell as 'Lord Protector'), who was virtually a king himself.

(Worth noting here that many people assumed George Washington would turn out to be another Cromwell. The fact that he didn't and the question of why he didn't, is not something I know enough to even begin to speculate about, but is definitely something to look into when trying to understand this topic.)

Most relevant for the early communists was the French Revolution, which led to the rise of Napoleon Bonaparte who, more or less explicitly imitating Caesar and Augustus, made himself sole ruler of France, first as 'Consul' (a title also borrowed from Classical Rome), then Emperor. He was also followed, a little later, by his nephew doing a very similar thing, again explicitly imitating the Romans.

Ironically, Marx himself wrote about this exact tendency, even calling it 'Bonapartism', to warn revolutionaries to try and avoid it. I don't know how exactly he missed the point that the very thing he elsewhere advocated for - violent revolution - was itself the cause of Bonapartism but it seems he did. Plainly, the early Marxists didn't sufficiently heed this warning, for whatever reason (and see other replies in this thread for many good suggestions!).

Basically, if you're going to advocate for the violent destruction of a system of government, you are running a major risk that in the ensuing chaos, someone very good at being violent and decisive will end with far too much power.

[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago

Ultimately, it's because the foundational ideas of communism don't scale.

[–] Snowclone@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

In Russia it's because of the cult of personality, or populism, that developed around Lenin and Stalin. Mao in China, pretty similar. You should appreciate how a country falls into chaos and madness when a populist takes power and ignores all legal and cultural norms and gets away with doing whatever they want.

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[–] jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 weeks ago

because its a centralized system with well defined hierarchies. makes it incredibly easy to subvert and control.

[–] theywilleatthestars@lemmy.world -1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Because the Soviet Union was autocratic and communist/socialist countries had to choose between cosying up to them and being destroyed by the CIA.

[–] ThrowawayPermanente@sh.itjust.works -1 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Scratch a Bad and America bleeds

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[–] ubergeek@lemmy.today -2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (17 children)

Because thats the end result of embiggening the state: The state gets bigger, and the oligarchs just changes faces.

It was something Marx remarked on later, post Paris Commune.

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[–] stoly@lemmy.world -2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

You can really ask the same question about capitalist societies. Why is there such oppression? Why is there a group that can do anything and a group that cannot? Regardless of your political system, human behavior is the same and it usually involves insecure ape-like people who want power for power's sake. Communism, just like every political system ever created, trends towards this sort of behavior.

As someone else said, desperation will cause people to move towards authoritarian thought, be that the extreme right (fascism) or the extreme left (communism).

[–] Odd_so_Star_so_Odd@lemmy.world -2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Short answer: Power abhors a vacuum. Natural hierarchies develop out of good old tribalism rather fast even with frameworks in place to avoid them.

Everybody wants to rule the world 🎶

[–] oVerde@lemmy.world -2 points 2 weeks ago

In a decentralized network I wasn't expecting this amount of shallow answers about this topic

[–] pimento64@sopuli.xyz -2 points 2 weeks ago

"Why do tadpoles always turn into frogs?"

[–] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world -2 points 2 weeks ago

In modern communist societies the government has an insane amount of power and control over just about everything. This power and control attracts a certain type of person who thirsts for power and control. People usually develop a bloodthirsty desire for power and control due to underlying psychological issues. These issues influence the person to think they ALWAYS need more power (think anorexic person who weighs 95lbs but still insists they are overweight).

It's a human nature problem imo.

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