this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2024

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Here Come Trump’s Concentration Camps (thetyee.ca)

submitted 2 days ago by Sunshine@lemmy.ca to c/politics@lemmy.world

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[–] Nougat@fedia.io 43 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I have a problem with this:

“Undocumented immigrants also play a large role in food processing,” Krugman writes. “For example, they account for an estimated 30 to 50 per cent of workers in meat-packing.”

The predictable effect, Krugman says, would be less food production and distribution, unless employers started paying far higher wages to attract new native-born workers. That in turn would boost the cost of groceries, when current prices are already too high.

The plain and obvious subtext here is that we're all exploiting undocumented workers already. I wish that when one of these articles talks about the "predictable effect" of deportations, that that would be mentioned out loud.

[–] SquatDingloid@lemmy.world 36 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Throughout the last 30-50 years Democrats are exclusively the ones who acknowledge this problem and push legislation to get them on naturalized citizenships, while also giving the subsidies needed for farmers to pay their workers fair wage.

Republicans block these bills every single time.

Putting people in camps is not a good solution to any problem.

[–] futatorius@lemm.ee 2 points 1 day ago

Start thinking about how to bust them out.

[–] kreskin@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago

You'd think that'd be true judging by the modern republican party, but IRCA in 1986 under Reagan was about the only large scale amnesty program ever done in the US. It legalized 2.7 million undocumented immigrants, which was about 75% of the undocumented at the time. It required that they pay back taxes, had been here 4 years, and had "good moral character", evidenced by no criminal history. Reagan was well aware of how critical immigrant labor was.

Modern dems talk about these issues but are either unable to get it done or think along much more limited goals. The Dream act and then daca were targetted at minors who entered the US undocumented, not the general undocumented immigrant population.

Reagan also appointed the first woman, Sandra Day Oconnor to the supreme court. He was full of paradoxes (he hated unions) and his personal life was an awful mess, but in some areas he'd be to the left of Biden.

[–] TimLovesTech@badatbeing.social 21 points 2 days ago

This has been brought up over and over before the election. Immigrants also pay Billions into social services they can't use every year, and deporting them will impact them as well.

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 49 points 2 days ago (6 children)

Can we do anything about this at all? This is not how a civilized nation acts. We are barbarians.

[–] futatorius@lemm.ee 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

We are not powerless. As the old song asked, are you taking orders, or are you taking over?

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago

They're taking over. We aren't powerless. But its about to get bad.

[–] trevor@lemmy.blahaj.zone 24 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It would require acting outside the confines of the law, because fascists aren't bound by the law either. And the more the US government is made obvious to be a joke, the more people might finally get the fucking clue that institutions are meaningless when they don't actually enforce the rules or provide meaningful support for what the working class actually needs, and they might eventually decide to do something about it.

That is, of course, hopeful thinking on my part, but I think it's the only correct answer to "what can we do when an overt fascist has power".

Additionally, on an interpersonal level, you need to find communities IRL if you don't have them, and be defiant together. Don't let these evil fucks normalize anymore bigotry or conspiracies than they already have. Even if social norms would dictate otherwise, call that shit out when it happens.

And don't preemptively give up or resign your position if you hold some sort of influential role in society. Don't make it easy for them. Every single bit of defiance makes it that much harder to impose the hell which they intend to inflict, which is in and of itself valuable.

[–] futatorius@lemm.ee 2 points 1 day ago

Yeah. Rule of law has already broken down. The only law left is what they are imposing on us. It has no legitimacy.

[–] SquatDingloid@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Well if you get 50 of your closest friends and show up with rifles when police come to abduct these people in their homes or workplaces then you can prevent it from happening

Every leftist who doesn't own a gun should be getting one right now before they start blocking gun sales to non trump loyalists

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Why does everyone go straight to guns and riots? Make a fucken People's PAC. Play the corpos and elites at their own game. Then if that doesnt work we can get the pitchforks.

[–] SquatDingloid@lemmy.world 15 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

They don't go straight there, you're missing decades of innafective protest and peaceful organization. Peaceful protest in the US is only allowed because it's ineffective.

"Riots are the voice of the unheard" - MLK

"Those who make peaceful protest impossible will make violent revolution inevitable " - JFK

Corpos can only be defeated with violence or having enough money to bankrupt them. There's no "fixing the system from the inside" when the only way into that system is to be born rich.

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I agree with you but it also seems like we haven't tried since Occupy Wallstreet.

[–] SquatDingloid@lemmy.world 2 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Blm had a clear message.

And the media demonized them

The civil rights movement never died, idiots just keep letting it be suppressed and then deepthroat corporate media when the oppressed people react logically to being ignored

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago

Yep, I kinds fear it will be like this forever, because so far it has been. As far back as history can see.

[–] Septimaeus@infosec.pub 0 points 1 day ago

Agreed except that’s definitely not the only way into the system.

It’s just the only way to have implicit trust from most while on the inside. That’s because (deep breath) who in their right mind would forfeit their birthright to save their lessers?

Of course I’d like to think I would but will never know. In history, however, we can see that there are always a few individuals who do precisely that.

Also one way to fix it from the inside goes kaboom.

[–] kreskin@lemmy.world 0 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

eh I dunno. If a cop pulls you over for a broken taillight and his computer says you own a gun, isnt there a much higher chance that they will freak out and shoot you for flimsy reasons?

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Guns tend to raise tensions wherever they are at. Cause they're life delete buttons.

[–] SkyNTP@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

You aren't wrong. But being walked all over because you took the high ground instead of responding in kind to someone else raising tensions isn't the answer. Just ask how that worked out for the Ukrainians who gave up their nukes.

It takes two to deescalate.

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world -1 points 2 days ago

What went wrong with Occupy? I need to look into that again. Cause you're just gonna either get put down under the Trump Admin with guns or revolutionary behavior. Not that we aren't gonna be down to guerilla but it seems like an extremely rough and costly life. Best hope on that is the Purged Generals decide to take America back.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago (2 children)

his computer says you own a gun

The fuck are you even talking about?!

[–] futatorius@lemm.ee 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

They'll see your gun registration.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 1 points 22 hours ago

What gun registration? I have 40-some guns. The cops have no database to find that information.

[–] kreskin@lemmy.world 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

you realize cops have computers in their cars right? And they look up your record when they pull you over? Do you even drive?

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 1 points 22 hours ago

Do you think the cops have records of the guns you own?! Jesus Christ...

[–] errer@lemmy.world 15 points 2 days ago (1 children)

All you can do is aid and abet any targets of these grossly immoral and illegal actions. Not sure on the specifics of how yet given we don’t know how they’re going to attempt to do this…but once they do, that’s when we figure that out.

[–] futatorius@lemm.ee 1 points 1 day ago

That's not all you can do. Demonstrations, occupations, interfering with illegal and unconstitutional actions, rebel media, graff, grassroots organizing, mutial support, smuggling of people and supplies. Find like-minded people, form cells, leave your phone at home, drive old cars without GPS or use bicycles. Only use cash. Learn what your neighborhood and city are like, and learn to be anonymous.

[–] kreskin@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

I prefer the term "shithole country". That way we can still blame it on other people and not collectively own any of the barbarity ourselves.

[+] whithom@discuss.online -9 points 2 days ago (3 children)

I mean, you CAN, but you won’t.

[–] futatorius@lemm.ee 2 points 1 day ago

We'll see.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

☝️ He's out of line, but he's right.

But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.

And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jewish swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way.

— Milton Sanford Mayer, They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933-45

[–] masterofn001@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Found the GRU agent.