this post was submitted on 05 Nov 2024
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[–] needthosepylons@lemmy.world 69 points 6 days ago (5 children)

Al..right. Let's do a little sanity check and let's see how up or downvoted is gets.

  1. It is absolutely true that violence against women is structurally endemic in our societies and they represent a large majority of domestic violence
  2. It is also absolutely true that domestic violence against men is clearly under-reported, to an unknown but significant extant
  3. It is absolutely true that abuse is abuse

Those assertions do not contradict each other.

[–] Tedesche@lemmy.world 12 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Ignoring female-on-male violence and shaming men who are victims of it is also structurally ingrained in our society.

[–] needthosepylons@lemmy.world 4 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

That's also true

[–] Starbuncle@lemmy.ca 16 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Ha! #2 is wrong because you said extant instead of extent. I've got you now, sensible internet stranger! 🤓🤓🤓

[–] needthosepylons@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago

Damn. I've been exposed!

[–] Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 6 days ago

1 is questionable, in part because of the claim that we don't know how under reported it is in 2. But also because there have been studies going back to the 70s suggesting that most violent relationships involve mutual violence, and the ones that don't aren't a large majority of men abusing women. For example, the woman who founded the first women's refuge in the UK had written that many of the women entering her shelter were as violent as the men they were leaving, giving a number a number that was pretty close to numbers Strauss, Gelles and Steinmetz came up with from their research in the 70

Those studies get questioned or minimized not because they have particularly bad issues with how they are done, but because the field is essentially subject to ideological capture and research that contradicts the goals of the activism at the time is worked against.

There's also some playing with terms and definitions that works against men in this kind of thing. To use a trans example, all women in the UK who rape are trans - this isn't because trans women are particularly likely to rape, but because rape is defined in the UK as requiring the perpetrator to penetrate the victim with the perpetrator's penis, which means cis women are incapable of "rape", but if you're a TERF and need something to support your point... For an example regarding men, Mary Koss (a prominent sexual assault researcher, enough so that you almost can't talk about the topic in the US without touching something descended from her work) was asked a question about men being raped by women about a decade ago in an interview. She responded with incredulity, asked how would that even happen, and when given an example who had been drugged into compliance was told by Koss that that wasn't rape, but "unwanted contact" and in other places she's made a point about the importance of keeping rape a word for female victims because men just don't feel hurt or shame in the same way.

Or NISVS where you see a couple of interesting things. One is playing with definitions where if a man copulates with a woman against her will it's "rape" but if a woman copulates with a man against his will it's "made to penetrate", with the latter being a subcategory of "Other" so as to obscure any kind of direct comparisons between them or that the two are as similar as they are. You also have this clearly demonstrated phenomenon that they seem to actively avoid discussing where previous year rape numbers are pretty similar (if you consider being "made to penetrate" equivalent to "rape") but in lifetime numbers men's reporting drops off drastically. I suspect this is caused by men not categorizing what happened to them in this way, in large part because they get told again and again that it doesn't count, that they were lucky, or similar until eventually they believe it.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 16 points 6 days ago

100% on all points

[–] VantaBrandon@lemmy.world 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Under-reported probably does not begin to capture it. I doubt 99.999% of instances of women hitting their man have ever been reported in human history, speaking from experience mostly due to pride.

Its a total double standard, as is almost everything with women. There I said it.

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[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 49 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I am a 6'6'', 280lbs man and my ex-wife was a 4'7'' 97lbs woman. She would hit me and psychologically abuse me a lot, and nobody would give a shit because "how can she hurt you? You're such a big guy!"

She would use weapons, you bastards! She would hit me while I was asleep! She would hit me in the nuts! And even if it didn't always physically hurt, it definitely hurt in other ways. Fuck off with that mentality.

[–] mm_maybe@sh.itjust.works 39 points 6 days ago (1 children)

My wife once hit me in front of my kids because she didn't like my pointing out a double standard in how she was treating them. The one she was favoring recently started hitting the other one in a similar manner--basically just to silence her when she said something he didn't like--and when I pointed out the similarity to my wife's actions and suggested he had learned it from her she got mad and claimed that rather than hitting me she had "hit my hand away" which is a lie and she knows it. It is 100% classic spousal abuse and gaslighting, and yet due to the sheer size difference between us--I'm a foot taller--I feel ridiculous calling it that, and don't want to find out what else my son learns is OK from his mom if I'm not around, so here I am still married to her, mostly trying to forget the abuse when it's not actively happening. She's been abusive, but I'm not really in any physical danger, so staying seems like the rational option in my situation... I imagine that's relatively common among men.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 25 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Hey man, I don't know your situation and all the details, but it's not at all ridiculous to call it spousal abuse or gaslighting. That's fucking dark, and that your son is picking up on it is darker. Your other kid likely isn't blind to it either, especially since she's started receiving that sort of treatment and being treated as the scapegoat. That sort of situation leaves deep scars on both spouse (you) and children. You don't have to be in physical danger (though abuse often escalates) to be in danger. Damage from abuse lasts a lifetime.

[–] VantaBrandon@lemmy.world 21 points 6 days ago

Literally my ex, any the typical reactions, where somehow I'm to blame for her insanity, because men are all bad and women are always right.

Ironically, she was cheating. Its always projection with the psychopaths.

[–] LordWiggle@lemmy.world 17 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I have been abused by both my mom and my partners. They took advantage of my insecurities, because of their insecurities. No one ever acknowledged it until recently. I have no trust in ever getting a relationship with someone who treats me equally. According to my therapists, I responded by turning into myself instead of developing a personality disorder. Apparently I'm too sweet.

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