this post was submitted on 04 Nov 2024

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275

TIL who I should actually contact if I witness anyone intimidating or harassing at polling places. (lemmy.sdf.org)

submitted 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) by mox@lemmy.sdf.org to c/til@lemmy.world

22 comments fedilink hide all child comments

This is in response to someone else's post from half an hour ago, which contained phone numbers controlled by a politically aligned organization. It doesn't matter which one.

Reports of election interference should go directly to the authorities:

https://www.usa.gov/voter-fraud

How to report voter fraud, intimidation, or suppression

If you suspect voter fraud, report it to your state or territorial election office. You can also report it to:

A local FBI office
A local U.S. attorney's office
The Public Integrity Section of the Department of Justice's Criminal Division

If you witness or suspect voter intimidation or suppression, there are three ways you can report it:

Contact your state or territorial election office
Contact the Voting Section of the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice
Use the Election Complaint Report online form

LAST UPDATED: September 18, 2024

all 23 comments

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[–] neatchee@lemmy.world 89 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

None of the resources detailed in this post provide any form of immediate assistance to resolve an ongoing threat to your ability to cast your vote.

They will not help you find a lawyer. They will not help pay for that lawyer. They will not contact law enforcement and apply pressure to have them respond in a timely manner.

These should NOT be your first call. They should be who you report to after the fact to pursue long term remediation.

If you are a Democrat, call a left-leaning political org with sufficient funding and an army of lawyers.

If you are a Republican, call a right-leaning political org with sufficient funding and an army of lawyers.

THEN call the folks in the OP

If your ballot is never cast, it can't be fixed later. The best the folks in the OP can do is punish the people who committed the crime. They can't get your vote counted. The political orgs are specifically set up to help in real-time to make sure you and everyone else at your polling place gets to vote NOW!

[+] mox@lemmy.sdf.org -11 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Of course, if there is immediate danger, calling someone who can show up and help right away is always a good idea. (I wouldn't think this needs stating, but yes, I agree on this point.)

None of the resources detailed in this post provide any form of immediate assistance to resolve an ongoing threat to your ability to cast your vote.

The local election offices are not substitutes for police departments, but I think they are likely to respond quickly. They have phone numbers.

If your ballot is never cast, it can’t be fixed later. The best the folks in the OP can do is punish the people who committed the crime. They can’t get your vote counted.

This is untrue. It is better to get your vote recorded the first time, of course, but fixing things later is also possible. If regional authorities are made aware of election interference, they can initiate a re-count, refuse to certify the results until a new vote is taken, etc. That's part of their job.

[–] neatchee@lemmy.world 18 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Recounts do not include submitting new votes.

And either way, good luck getting a partisan controlled office to institute a recount or re-vote in the current political climate.

You are gambling on the hope that the problem gets fixed later. This is a terrible idea.

And local election offices - often under partisan control - have no obligation to assist individuals in getting their ballot cast.

You are either being extremely naive to the realities on the ground, or intentionally disingenuous.

[–] mox@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Recounts do not include submitting new votes.

If you read my comment more carefully, you'll find that I mentioned those two things separately, as example responses to a problem. I did not say or imply that one included the other.

You are gambling on the hope that the problem gets fixed later.

No. I am saying that election interference reports must go to the election authorities. Directing people to a political organization instead undermines the process, and is not sufficient. (Reporting to both is fine, though.)

And local election offices - often under partisan control - have no obligation to assist individuals in getting their ballot cast.

If that is a problem where you live, then I suggest also reporting to the federal authorities. There's a whole list of contacts on the .gov page I provided.

And maybe making a special post aimed specifically at people in that situation. Not telling everyone, everywhere that a partisan political org is the place to report election interference, as was done in the problematic post.

(Again, reporting to the authorities and also reporting to a non-government org is fine; what's bad is leading people away from reporting to the officials. The officials need to know when this stuff is happening. We need to get it on the record.)

[–] neatchee@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

I would like you to direct me to any images or posts on fedi or similar that instruct people to call the numbers provided INSTEAD of calling government authorities

Because while your post explicitly calls out the instructions in these image as being wrong, giving the specific impression that people should call the numbers you provided and NOT political orgs (because you speak very critically of the political orgs, insinuating they should not be called), every post I've seen with political org numbers has simply provided the information without additional comment

Your initial post reeks of manipulation in an effort to drive people away from the political orgs.

Those orgs serve a very specific purpose that is NOT covered by the state and federal offices you've told people to call. Those government offices are not a replacement for the services provided by the political orgs and you should not be presenting them as if they are

[–] would_be_appreciated@lemmy.ml 10 points 3 days ago (1 children)

This is untrue. It is better to get your vote recorded the first time, of course, but fixing things later is also possible. If regional authorities are made aware of election interference, they can initiate a re-count, refuse to certify the results until a new vote is taken, etc. That’s part of their job.

Is there precedent for casting a vote in the general election after election day in the United States?

[–] mox@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Yes.

Example from 2018 in North Carolina:
(Note that the article also mentions another example in that state from 1975.)

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/north-carolina-is-getting-a-do-over-election/

Example from 2023 in Connecticut:
(I don't know if this one was considered a general election.)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/election-redo-rare-connecticut-mayor-rcna129735

[–] would_be_appreciated@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 days ago

The North Carolina example is fascinating, I don't know how I missed that when it happened. Incredibly, Harris is running again this year since he wasn't among those convicted.

I'd argue the big difference would be if we're talking the presidential election, since it's not self-contained within a state or a city. I'd consider it unlikely the powers that be would let the presidential seat go vacant while they scramble to hold another election, but who knows?

[–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 15 points 3 days ago (1 children)

.......mmmmm........

........c'mon.......

Uuuggghhhhhhh

..............don't say it........

...........

twitching

You wanna know who you gonna call???

GHOSTBUSTERS!!!!

[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I ain’t afraid of no ~~ghost~~white terrorist.

[–] JonsJava@lemmy.world 14 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I called the top number (the "NATIONWIDE" number).

They were very prompt. I asked them if someone - regardless of political leaning - were to call, what they would actually do, and how this would be a better solution to other services like the ones listed by OP.

One thing is there's no real-time solution available anywhere in the U.S., from what I can find, nor what they are aware of.

Next, when we call, they will route your call to the proper escalation path, depending on the nature of the call. This also means that if you're being intimidated, they will reach out to the law enforcement for your polling station (city/county/state as needed). This is regardless of your political leaning. They would be contacting the proper authorities on behalf of the Democratic National Support Hotline, which carries a bit of weight, as they do have an army of lawyers at their disposal, for if it's not resolved in a timely fashion.

I was on hold for a while to get a better understanding of how things worked, to see if this was, in fact, a valid and viable option.

Yes, it IS partisan org, but they state they will not play partisan politics with intimidation.

TL;DR: they are there to do something the government can't/won't - provide immediate resolution to voter intimidation regardless of your political leaning.

[–] mox@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

You called a political organization, and reached someone who is trained to tell you the sort of thing you wanted to hear.

The election authorities need to know about vote interference immediately. If you witness it, call the authorities directly.

It's possible that the political org you called might be helpful as an extra measure, if you have additional free time to contact them as well. It's also possible that they will reassure you and promptly drop your report in the proverbial trash if the interference you reported aligns with their interests. It's impossible to know, no matter what they say. Either way, they are no substitute for calling the authorities.

[–] JonsJava@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

I agree, but every avenue at our disposal are forms. They will receive them, and I encourage that people DO report them to the FBI and Justice department. What I'm also saying is that those methods async, while this one is offering real-time assistance.

I would never say "don't notify the authorities". I am just saying that if you can put some weight behind your report and get it resolved while you are there, that's a good thing too.

You assuming that because they are a political org, they will play partisan politics, so to ignore them out-of-hand makes me wonder what you would do in their position.

Not all people are evil, and again, I'm not saying not to report to the proper authorities. I'm just saying that reporting to the proper authorities may take weeks or months, where this may help you in minutes or hours - in time for the vote.

[–] mox@lemmy.sdf.org -2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

I agree, but every avenue at our disposal are forms.

This is untrue. A phone number is prominently shown on the very first official link I tried: the Public Integrity Section of the Department of Justice's Criminal Division. There are more phone numbers at the various state election offices.

You assuming that because they are a political org, they will play partisan politics,

No. I have assumed no such thing. I am pointing out that they are not the authorities, and since they are not, a report to them is not a report to the authorities. They might play partisan politics, or they might not. They might remember to pass your report on to the authorities at some point in the future, or they might forget. There's no way to know, and it doesn't matter.

Report directly to the authorities. It's fine to also report to someone else, but they are no substitute. Definitely report to the authorities.

[–] JonsJava@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Report directly to the authorities

100% agree with this. You reported the post in politicalmemes with this as the reason:

misinformation; these phone numbers route to a politically-aligned organization

What was the misinformation? The title says "[META] Where to call if you witness anyone intimidating or harassing at polling places." and the image clearly states who is behind it.

If you can state that they aren't there to help, and provide proof, I'll back down, but the fact that you came at it as "lies", that's a bold claim.

Again, contact authorities, but there's nothing wrong with having other avenues to assistance.

[–] Docus@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

I saw the original post in TIL, not in a political community where it may be (slightly) more acceptable. It’s never ok to divert reports of criminality away from the authorities and towards political organisations. And listing a bunch of phone numbers of a political organisation without stating their affiliation is misleading.

[–] mox@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

The misinformation is directing people to report election interference using phone numbers belonging to a political organization, rather than the election authorities. A call to those numbers is not a call to the authorities. The post directs people away from the appropriate channels. It is therefore misleading.

[Edit: I acknowledge that it might have been well-intended. It is still misleading.]

the image clearly states who is behind it.

The presence of a domain name printed at the bottom of the list of phone numbers, which most people will not carefully consider (or in many cases even notice), doesn't make it okay.

you came at it as “lies”

I said no such thing. Please don't put words in my mouth.

[–] Docus@lemmy.world 13 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Thank you, good work.

[–] mox@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 3 days ago

[–] Mellow12@lemmy.world 9 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Should we report them for attempting commit fraud for posing as an official complaint office?

[–] mox@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

I would report that other post (and it's source, since it's a re-post) to the Lemmy mods for spreading misinformation.

I don't think the phone number image in it is technically fraud, since it identifies its sponsoring organization and doesn't claim to be from an official government office.

[–] Docus@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I thought about reporting it, but not sure if it meets the criteria to be deleted so added my views to that post instead. Edit: sod it, i reported the other post