this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2024
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TLDR:
Windows 11 v24H2 and beyond will have Recall installed on every system. Attempting to remove Recall will now break some file explorer features such as tabs.

YT Video (5min)

Invidious Link

Original Github Issue

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[–] lemmyingly@lemm.ee 4 points 6 days ago (2 children)

What's an alternative to explorer?

Unfortunately, just switch to Linux is not an option.

[–] absentbird@lemm.ee 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

What do you have against Linux?

[–] MinusPi@pawb.social 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

As much as I love it, it just doesn't work for some people or situations.

[–] absentbird@lemm.ee 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Pfft, proprietary propaganda. How hard is it to let go of every app you're familiar with, learn half a dozen scripting languages, and memorize a hundred different commands in vim?

What you say is true, though I've become so jaded with Microsoft that I don't think there's any software or situation I'd use Windows for; I'd sooner switch to Mac.

[–] lemmyingly@lemm.ee 2 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Linux doesn't have the breadth of programs available that Windows does. Programs developed for Windows are sometimes better than their FOSS equivalents. Eg. I pay for Office, partially so my parents can use it and partially because it's just a better set of programs than any of the FOSS equivalents. I generally only find the Linux programs are better when it comes to computer management and maintenance.

So I run Linux for servers and Windows for PCs.

[–] nokturne213@sopuli.xyz 1 points 6 days ago

I pay for Office, partially so my parents can use it and partially because it’s just a better set of programs than any of the FOSS equivalents.

Years ago I switched from MS OfficeXP to Open Office and then to Libre Office. For years I lamented how I missed Excel and the Libre Calc just does not cut it. Then I started working for a university in 2017 and I had to install MS Office on all of our laptops for presentations, I was so excited to have Excel again. Boy was I wrong. Libre Office was so much better, as was the entire suite. Maybe it is just familiarity.

[–] absentbird@lemm.ee 1 points 6 days ago

To each their own. Personally I can't stand MS Office, I think Google Docs is easier for most nontechnical people these days anyway. For the rare cases when Office is needed, the web version works fine on Linux.

LibreOffice works great, and WPS Office is proprietary but at least it's free.

Personally I write my documents in markdown and use pandoc to convert them into PDF or docx or whatever. It's like writing the source code and then compiling, I like it.

I'm sure you've looked into all that, but for anyone else who is interested in alternatives those are my recommendations.

[–] disguised_doge@kbin.earth 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

You can prevent recall from running and collecting data, you just can't remove it entirely without breaking some features. I don't think you can replace the file explorer, it's your desktop n stuff as well as file exploring, but preventing recall from running might be your best bet. Or, alternatively, if you don't use the features that you lose in file explorer by removing recall then you might be fine just removing recall and continuing on.

[–] lemmyingly@lemm.ee 1 points 6 days ago

I was thinking about disabling explorer from running or at least kill it at boot up. And then using an alternative file explorer and task bar.

[–] recursive_recursion@lemmy.ca 291 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

This is absolutely insane
My condolences to all Windows 11 users.

It's becoming common knowledge that:

  • It's not a matter of if but when will xyz service/application be breached and what are the potential damages it could do to me and others?

"I assume every online service is not if; it's when is it going to be breached? Right? So I operate under that assumption, that everything is going to be breached at some point. And so that's why Recall was so scary to me where it's like, I don't care how secure they say it is, like you look at Spectre and Meltdown no one thought these things were going to affect millions of CPUs and here we are, right?

  • Steve from Gamers Nexus

[Level1Techs] Microsoft Is KILLING Windows | ft. Steve @GamersNexus

[–] BreadstickNinja@lemmy.world 72 points 1 week ago (25 children)

I guess I just have to keep Windows 10 with a custom group policy that disables all updates either forever or until I learn Linux.

Linux gaming is getting to the point that I could consider the switch, but I hear scary stories about Nvidia drivers.

[–] LordCrom@lemmy.world 57 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I had no issues with Nvidia. PopOs has support for Nvidia on install....I used it and it worked

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[–] secretfoxtail@lemmy.ca 269 points 1 week ago (11 children)

Microsoft has been the single most effective marketing asset for GNU/Linux distributions in recent years.

[–] AstralPath@lemmy.ca 3 points 5 days ago

I'm so fucking glad I switched to Linux this year.

[–] kameecoding@lemmy.world 70 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Well Valve was doing too well with the steam deck in that area so they had to trump them, second place is just the first loser.

[–] walderan@sh.itjust.works 70 points 1 week ago

Valve is holding the carrot, Microsoft the stick.

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[–] DirkMcCallahan@lemmy.world 195 points 1 week ago (2 children)
[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 68 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (11 children)

After all the fud and opposition they've pushed against it over the years. It's nice to see them finally do things to help it.

Quick edit to add that it couldn't come at a better time now that there are companies like system 76 out there. Making Linux compatible systems that ship with Linux that you can actually recommend to someone who is a novice to pick up. They may be on a more expensive side. But what's your privacy worth?

[–] helenslunch@feddit.nl 40 points 1 week ago (1 children)

But what's your privacy worth?

I think society has shown us time and time again over several decades that the answer to that question is "not a God damned thing".

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[–] Australis13@fedia.io 194 points 1 week ago (8 children)

Okay, this might be a non-issue: https://github.com/ChrisTitusTech/winutil/issues/2697#issuecomment-2403792309

To those that arrive here from any Youtube or Twitter posts, please know that disabling Recall via DISM works fine, and preserves the modern File Explorer (though some might consider this an anti-feature). CBS correctly disables it, and the disablement is preserved through reboots, just like with any other feature.

Edit: of course, the big problem here is that it's still present (even disabled) and hence malware could turn it back on without you realising. Ugh.

[–] RobertoOberto@sh.itjust.works 87 points 1 week ago (4 children)

A lot of unpopular "features" and behaviors used to have DISM, policy, or registry workarounds. And MS seems to love to kill those workarounds during later updates.

If MS isn't letting people uninstall it, there's a reason for it, and I'd be willing to bet that users will one day find that it has been magically re-enabled by an update.

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[–] narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee 51 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Malware could also reinstall it to be fair, or just create screenshots on its own.

Still smells fishy that Explorer has it as a dependency, "disabled" or not.

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[–] Stomata@buddyverse.one 178 points 1 week ago (24 children)

Linux is here to welcome you

[–] vxx@lemmy.world 72 points 1 week ago (17 children)

Man, I cling to Windows like nobody else, as I didn't have any advertising issues and such, but this will be the final straw.

It's already enough of a spying system but I refuse to have it as a spy on crack.

Time to read into distros.

[–] boonhet@lemm.ee 50 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (21 children)

As far as Linux distros are concerned, really, any distro is just a package manager with repos and a set of default utilities. Essentially, a distro is an opinion on how you should use your system, not a law. Now prepare for my ADHD-fuelled stream of consciousness (which I wrote instead of getting any work done, yay):

Stay away from Arch and Gentoo for your first distro. These are basically meme distros, especially Gentoo. They allow for a lot of flexibility and building a really minimal install, but come with install-time complexity you really don't need. Try them later on if you're interested. Stay away from nixOS for now too, although it's also awesome.

Package managers

Essentially, you have two main packaging types: RPM (used by Fedora/RedHat's dnf, previously yum and (Open)SuSE's zypper) and deb (used by apt mostly, dunno if others).

Either one is fine, but I think you'll probably find more software available as debs. But the difference barely exists and with GUI apps you can usually install a flatpak anyway (more on this later).

Deb

Everything deb/apt comes from the Debian lineage.

You have Debian, the granddaddy of stability, releases come every few years and are tested thoroughly. After package freeze, only bugfixes and security updates usually get added. Then you have Ubuntu, a fork of Debian with more frequent releases as well as Long-Term Support releases every 2 years. Ubuntu used to be the most recommended beginner distro, but it's no longer the case - not just because it has ads in it, but also because it pushes Snaps over Flatpaks AND occasionally tries to force Snaps over regular packages (again, more on this later).

Then, much like Ubuntu has forked Debian, others have forked Ubuntu. There's Linux Mint - used to have the same release cadence as Ubuntu, but now they only base their releases off Ubuntu LTS versions. Really, it's Ubuntu without all the commercial stuff Ubuntu's been pushing. And they maintain their own desktop environment(s), but you can get those elsewhere too. There's also Pop!_OS which is developed by System76, a laptop manufacturer. It used to come with its' own customizations on top of Gnome, but now they're creating their own desktop environment altogether, which is currently in Alpha 2. And then there's KDE Neon, which is also based on Ubuntu LTS, but it ships the latest version of KDE Plasma desktop environment, rather than whatever version is in the latest Ubuntu LTS.

Rpm

On the rpm side, you mostly have two families for non-enterprise users: Fedora, which has a similar release cadence to Ubuntu, but apparently keeps packages more up to date between releases and OpenSuSE, which has Leap (new versions every year, with critical bugfixes and security updates in the meantime) and Tumbleweed, which is rolling release, so you just get the latest version of every package that has been tested, rather than having to wait for a new release. Tumbleweed gets updated just about every day. There's also Slowroll, which gets big updates monthly, but can still get bugfixes between those.

Desktop Environments

For just about any distro, you can get just about any desktop environment. Ubuntu and Fedora default to Gnome. KDE Neon is pretty much just meant to be used with KDE Plasma. Pop!_OS defaults to customized Gnome unless you get the alpha version of the new COSMIC desktop. OpenSUSE defaults to KDE Plasma.

For Ubuntu you get variants like Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, etc, for whatever desktop you want, or you can switch alter (apt install kubuntu-desktop for an example). For Fedora, you can get a Fedora Spin, like Fedora KDE Spin for an example. Or you can similarly switch: dnf install @kde-desktop-environment. Same goes for all of them, really.

Desktop environments: The two big ones are KDE Plasma (close to Windows in default appearance, but a lot more customizable, and more functional straight out of the box) and Gnome, which as of Gnome 3 is just... unique, I guess. It's different. Then on the "Help I'm running this on a computer from 2004" side you have things like XFCE and LXQT. (Xubuntu, Lubuntu get their names from these). Those work just fine too, just a bit less eye candy. There are a lot more of less mainstream ones like Budgie or Enlightenment, but you can worry about those later.

Sandboxed applications - Flatpak, Snap

Now, why did I mention Flatpaks and Snaps earlier? Those are sandboxed package managers. A package comes with a sandbox of its' own, and Flatpak or Snap keeps a copy of all the libraries it depends on, instead of using system libraries. This means that 1) There's never a version conflict between what's installed on your system and what the application uses and 2) You have multiple copies of some libraries (Flatpak and Snap both I think do try to deduplicate though so if two applications use the same version of a dependency, it keeps one copy stored). 3) You can install applications your distro doesn't even have a package for.

Both also keep system resources out of reach of the applications, so they're more secure to some degree if you don't trust an application. This comes with limitations, too - sometimes you NEED your application to have access to something that's limited in Flatpak or Snap. You can sorta fix this with flatseal for Flatpak, but it's not perfect.

The real problem with Snap, besides having a proprietary backend vs Flatpak where you can use either Flathub or another application store with it, is that Ubuntu is starting to force it upon you - including for applications you may not want to run in a sandbox at all. You'll run apt install firefox and it'll play a trick on you and install the Snap instead of the deb. You lose some control over your system and how you use it. You can override this, but it's possibly more work than you'd want to take on as a brand new Linux user.

At the end of the day, I recommend using either OpenSuSE Tumbleweed (if you want latest and greatest always), Fedora, Linux Mint, or Pop!_OS. If you really want the latest and greatest KDE Plasma and don't want Tumbleweed, then KDE Neon might make sense for you.

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[–] affiliate@lemmy.world 169 points 1 week ago (2 children)

how the fuck could they have possibly done things in a way that makes explorer tabs depend on recall?

if they can’t even separate out recall from the rest of the operating system then i have absolutely no faith it will be secure.

[–] drunkosaurus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 94 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It's so you can't rip Recall out without ruining Explorer, and possibly other things

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 61 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

Internet explorer did similar things, try to remove it and the OS would just crash.

Edit: just remembered it also had direct memory access to make it faster (well, less slow) which was so insanely unsecure on so many levels.

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[–] match@pawb.social 163 points 1 week ago (25 children)

it was vastly easier to install linux mint than it is to figure out registry editing or whatever the fuck i'd need to avoid this

[–] SomethingBurger@jlai.lu 92 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Nah, mate, Linux is hard, you need to know what a Wayland is. In comparison, Windows is very simple and lightweight, you only have to run a dozen Powershell scripts and edit the registry weekly to get rid of ads.

[–] Bread@sh.itjust.works 56 points 1 week ago

"Do I look like I know what a Wayland is?"

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[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 44 points 1 week ago

And some Windows update would "accidentally" undo that anyways.

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[–] Zorsith@lemmy.blahaj.zone 95 points 1 week ago (6 children)

What the actual fuck, microsoft?

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 67 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

"We're entitled to everything to do, every scrap of data, everything you create, so we can feed our AI to make even more money, because you are ~~making the mistake of~~ using our product. If someone does hack our systems and steals all your data, who fucking cares? You aren't me. I still get paid."

-Microsuck execs.

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[–] fossilesque@mander.xyz 74 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (9 children)

Windows Debloat Tool:

https://github.com/LeDragoX/Win-Debloat-Tools

I run this on any new Win install. I also suggest Portmaster so you know where your data is going (I use it on Linux too!)

https://safing.io/

However, if you can, it is really worth switching to Linux. Linux is built as a tool by the people using the tool. Windows is making a product. Enough said.

If people would like to "try Linux before you buy," check out DistroSea. It spins up a virtual machine of whatever distro and flavour you choose to try.

https://distrosea.com/

There are a surprising and growing number of Linux compatible tools. Software is usually why people have a hard time switching. If you're dependent on Photoshop/Adobe, check out:

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve

Gamers should check out:

https://www.protondb.com/

This site shows how well games run on Proton (compatibility tool) and people offer solutions to get them running if there's any snags.

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[–] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 74 points 1 week ago

Ahahaha, holly fucking shit.

They literally added some OS in their spyware.

[–] DasAlbatross@lemmy.world 72 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Welp. Time to buy a NAS to back up all my stuff and rebuild this pc with Linux.

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[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 63 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I remember them doing this with Internet Explorer back in the 90s.

"We can't remove this thing we don't want to remove! Look! It's hastily integrated with the OS! We can't remove it ever!"

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[–] utopiah@lemmy.world 52 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (21 children)

For years... well pretty much since I had a PC, I had a Windows partition. Why? Well because I (sadly) paid for the damn thing (damn OEM deals). Plus, I admit, sometimes they were things that only ran on Windows.

For few years now though, everything, literally, from the latest tech gadget to playing games to VR, works on Linux.

Few weeks ago I deleted the Windows partition. I didn't have to. I didn't boot on it for months. It didn't affect me.

Still, I now feel ... safer, more relaxed, coherent.

When I see shit like that, I feel even better!

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[–] mlg@lemmy.world 42 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Explorer has had so many dependencies attached to it that if even one of them sneezes, the entire desktop environment crashes and has to restart.

Actually insane when you think about it. Why the hell is a file explorer the root process of the desktop??????

I've only ever forced stopped thunar once and it was because I was messing with some thumbnail settings. Naturally the rest of my system worked as normal, as well as the other thunar windows open lol.

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[–] Death_Equity@lemmy.world 40 points 1 week ago (11 children)

I won't upgrade past 10 anyways and if I can't run 10, back to Linux I go.

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[–] CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world 40 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Looks like I picked the right year to switch to Linux on my primary pc.

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