this post was submitted on 04 Sep 2024
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386
Harris leads Trump in polls, but remains an underdog due to the Electoral College (www.msnbc.com)
submitted 2 weeks ago by floofloof@lemmy.ca to c/politics@lemmy.world
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[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 109 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

As usual, national polls mean nothing without national elections, but lets see where we're at...

Arizona - Trump +1, +3, +5
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/arizona/

Nevada - Toss Up - Harris +1, Trump +1, Ties
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/nevada/

New Mexico - Harris +7, +8, +11
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/new-mexico/

Georgia - Toss Up Harris +1, +2, Tie
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/georgia/

North Carolina - Toss Up Trump +1, Tie
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/north-carolina/

Pennsylvania - Toss Up Harris +1, Trump +1/+2, ties
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/pennsylvania/

Michigan - Harris +3, +5, Trump +1, Tie
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/michigan/

Wisconsin - Harris +4, +6, Trump +1
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/wisconsin/

Minnesota - Harris +5, +7, +11
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/minnesota/

Arizona moves out of toss-up territory for the first time in a long time, moving to Trump.

Michigan is still with Harris, but slipping. Next round of polling could flip to Trump.

Let's look at the map:

So, of the "Undecideds", PA by itself puts Harris at 270. She could lose NV, NC, GA, AZ and still win with PA.

PA is NOT enough to win for Trump. That only puts him at 249. So he needs PA + 21 more. GA and NC are both 16, Nevada is 6.

So PA + any 2 other states, GA+NC, GA+NV, NC+NV.

If Trump takes PA and GA, and Harris gets NC + NV, she wins with 273. Same with GA + NC. 283 if she loses NV and takes GA+NC.

Much harder road for Trump to win here, but both of them absolutely must have PA.

[–] Coelacanth@feddit.nu 38 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I can't believe it's this close and I hate that Harris is starting to slip in some states. My heart can't handle another Trump presidency.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

Then make plans to move out of the country. A close 2024 win for liberalism without solid leads in Congress means nothing but another nailbiter in 2028.

[–] Bogan@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Moving out of the country is impossible for 99% of the people who would want to.

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[–] frezik@midwest.social 2 points 1 week ago

To where? Right wing fascism is on the rise pretty much everywhere.

[–] RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world 17 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Holy Kornacki, thank you for putting that together.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago

I don't even have a big board!

[–] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

jordanlund is a Lemminal treasure.

[–] Skyrmir@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm starting to question 538s predictions not because there is any problem with the models, but because there is a filter on what polls they choose to include. I don't want to call it bias, it's just a blind spot that their model isn't getting all the input for.

Of course it's not like anyone else is doing a better job either.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Polling is inherently problematic every time you see they polled "likely voters" as opposed to "registered voters".

If they're self selecting who they consider to be "likely", it's going to have a skewed result.

[–] Skyrmir@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Likely voters are those that have voted before, that's what makes them likely to vote again. For the most part they're the more accurate people to be polling.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

And discounts first time voters.

Some even only count people who voted in the last 2 elections.

[–] Skyrmir@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

Because new voters are a rounding error smaller than the error bars of the sample size.

Polling is pretty much like the unemployment rate. Any individual reading is meaningless, it's a multitude of readings over time that give any useful information.

[–] nieminen@lemmy.world 57 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

Hope she wins, and pushes through something to dismantle the collage. We need ranked choice.

[–] kescusay@lemmy.world 32 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact is a good first step: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact

[–] bamboo@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

This is just a bandaid and the conservative justices on the supreme court will strike it down for some stupid reason.

[–] CluelessLemmyng@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Not sure how. The Constitution is pretty explicit that States get to determine how they send delegates to the EC.

[–] bamboo@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 2 weeks ago

There's a whole Wikipedia article about the legality of it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutionality_of_the_National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact

With this Supreme Court, my rule.of thumb is they will always pick the worst side of a debate, even if that goes against precedent and the constitution.

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[–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 17 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

We cant dismantle the electoral college easily, but what we can do is revoke the law putting caps on the number of representatives and electoral college votes. It wouldnt be perfect but it may be enough to knee cap the GOP for awhile. Also pass a law that allows reps to vote remotely from home offices in their districts.

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago (2 children)

99% of the problems stem from the house not getting bigger over the last 100 years.

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[–] ikidd@lemmy.world 15 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Unless she gets the presidency, the Democrats roll up supermajorities in the House and Senate, and a majority of states put in Democratic governors, this isn't happening. IE: it isn't happening.

[–] abff08f4813c@j4vcdedmiokf56h3ho4t62mlku.srv.us 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

There are in fact a couple of workarounds for this.

If Harris wins and Dems get enough majority control of both houses (enough to get around likely no votes from maverick Dems like Joe Manchin), then the Senate majority leader (Schumer) can lower the bar for a filibuster to a bare majority.

Then pass a new law appointing nine new Supreme Court justices. Harris nominates them and the Senate approves them.

Then pass a new federal law that requires the electoral vote of states to follow the nationwide popular vote, as per the Compact. You get the same effect without needing the States to sign on, and with the court packed the law hopefully will be able to withstand the challenges.

Plan B - if we really do need a constitutional amendment to fix this and abolish the Electoral College outright - then drop the filibuster as above, but then follow this plan https://www.vox.com/2020/1/14/21063591/modest-proposal-to-save-american-democracy-pack-the-union-harvard-law-review

Basically pass a law that allows each neighborhood of DC to be admitted in as a new state - so 127 in all - and with the new supermajority of states (and corresponding supermajorities in both Houses), pass whatever constitutional amendments are required.

[–] ikidd@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

IEE: It isn't happening.

It would also require the Democrat will to move that mountain as above, which I don't think exists even if there were supermajorities and governors to do it. They benefit almost as much from the 2-party system and electoral college as the Republicans.

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[–] nieminen@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Almost the whole house is up for reelection this November as well, so maybe at least that part can be handled.

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The whole house and 1/3 of the senate is up for reelection every 2 years...

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[–] FenrirIII@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Don't hold your breath. The system works for the right people

[–] Lightor@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

"The right people" I see what you did there.

[–] Eiri@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 weeks ago

Even without ranked choice it would be an upgrade to be rid of the college

[–] Zerlyna@lemmy.world 54 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

Cat ladies doing our part! 💪😻

[–] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 26 points 2 weeks ago

Don’t stop. The popular vote isn’t enough, and Trump is still a slight favorite to win.

[–] CatsGoMOW@lemmy.world 24 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Cat gentleman doing my part! 💪😻

[–] simplejack@lemmy.world 16 points 2 weeks ago

Cat doing my part! 💪😻

[–] transientpunk@sh.itjust.works 13 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Cat theydie doing my part! 💪😻

[–] thegr8goldfish@startrek.website 33 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

If Diaper wins I'm done. Just move to the boonies and just go full media blackout until 2028 or when the zombies show up

[–] Raiderkev@lemmy.world 28 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

The boonies are full of red hats. That's the last place you'll want to be

[–] mememuseum@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Deep cover infiltration!

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 11 points 2 weeks ago

(offer not available to all melanin counts)

[–] RunningInRVA@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em?

[–] smeenz@lemmy.nz 22 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

If trump wins, what makes you think there will be an election in 2028 ?

[–] linearchaos@lemmy.world 15 points 2 weeks ago

He's been pretty open about their not being another need to vote

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[–] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 23 points 2 weeks ago

I really hate our electoral college system. Giving undue privilege to certain regions, most especially rural areas, is exceedingly stupid and just holds this country back so very much. It'd be one thing if more weight was given to the areas that the most going for them - as far as GDP/brain power/influence and so on. But instead, it's the opposite.

Apologists for the slavery-era holdover that is the EC will say "but the candidates will just mostly go to big cities" - yeah, NO KIDDING. That's where the fucking people are. That's who the government serves. Not land. Right now the candidates mostly campaign in "battleground states" because of the stupid and backward EC. Instead of trying to get the most votes across the entire nation.

Ridiculous.

Our Senate and House are not that much better than the way we choose Presidents, either. The population of states is not given proper consideration, even for the House.

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 21 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

"person may lose the election by getting the most votes" is this even a thing outside the US?

i know winning without a majority vote is a thing in multiparty systems where the winner will have plurality instead... but having the majority vote and losing is just fucking insane to me.

[–] Viper_NZ@lemmy.nz 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Unfortunately yes, it’s huge problem with first past the post systems.

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

how?

i was talking about electoral college. never heard a party receiving a majority vote losing in the first past the post system.

[–] Viper_NZ@lemmy.nz 5 points 2 weeks ago

A good example is the 1981 election in New Zealand, where the Labour Party won more votes but the National Party won more seats and formed the government.

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Whether it's possible for a party to win a majority of votes but lose an election, in a first-past-the-post system, will depend on the how the electoral districts are drawn, the voter turnout in each district, and the geographical distribution of the majority. The system itself does allow this to happen.

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

i was talking about general elections. usually the popular vote determines it, no matter where the votes come from. you're still talking about electoral college, not fptp.

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I'm not familiar with how the US electoral college works. I am talking about FPTP electoral systems like those in the UK and Canada. One MP is elected per constituency, and if a party wins a majority of the seats (that is, if they have a majority of the MPs), they can form a government. In such a system it's common for a party to win the majority of seats without having a majority of votes, and possible for a party with the majority of votes not to win a majority of seats.

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[–] circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org 17 points 1 week ago

Empty land doesn't vote. But it can get you extra representation per capita, somehow.

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