this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2023
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solarpunk memes

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Edit

I kinda made this post out of spite for the fact the most previous post in this community, whose title I quoted/copied, was getting so many downvotes... At the time I posted this, the previous post had about a 30% downvote rate, and it really, really made me mad.

I am relieved tho to see people in the comments here who have real, actual empathy for their fellow humans. Thank you for contributing here.

It blows my mind how normalized it is to hate on those who are struggling. Especially in 20fucking23 when so many of us now are on the verge of it ourselves. Let's be better, everyone - to everyone. I beg you.

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[–] Son_of_dad@lemmy.world 96 points 1 year ago (16 children)

Everyone is ok with homeless in tents till they set up shop in your street

[–] TheFriar@lemm.ee 42 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If someone sets up a spot to sleep and keep their stuff close to your house, try talking to them like a person. I live in the City, so there are plenty of people I see all the time. Sometimes they ask for help, sometimes we just talk. I help when I can, but I also say no when I can’t. I stand outside and talk to some of the struggling people close to me for a while sometimes. They’re just people

[–] j_roby@slrpnk.net 14 points 1 year ago

We need more of this right here in the world. Thank you for being an empathetic and decent human.

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[–] keeb420@kbin.social 30 points 1 year ago (10 children)

I don't mind the homeless through no fault of their own camping on my street. But I've seen plenty of drugged out mofos camping in front of or near my work I wouldn't want anywhere near my house or those of my neighbors who have kids. I'm talking about the mofos who take apart cars and bikes and whatever else and then just leave everything when they move on. The mofos with piles of garbage that attract rats bigger than cats.

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[–] Seaguy05@lemmy.world 44 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I disagree... public space is our space. No one's need is greater than anyone else's. The homeless need help, the pubic space that we use to get to the store, play with our children, buff highway noise is not the place to get that. Now, I'm not saying financially penalizing or jailing them are the only alternatives but safe camping/RV spots with access to access social services, Wi-Fi, gather for ac/heater, etc seems like a better approach.

[–] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

I'd rather we just give them housing and a support network to prevent homelessness in the first place. Until then, homeless people have a right to access third spaces for as long as they don't have a living space.

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[–] Old_Dude@lemmy.world 41 points 1 year ago (5 children)

If you agree with this, you've never seen public spaces taken over by homeless.

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[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca 37 points 1 year ago (6 children)

When those public spaces become shantytowns, crime rises in that area. So no- it’s not only about survival for the homeless. It’s not so cut-and-dry.

Those that live in those areas deserve to not be mugged. They deserve to feel safe in their homes.

Don’t act like it’s a right for people to become junkies that refuse help. Empathy is reserved for people who try and help themselves. Setting up a permanent encampments shows no intent to help one’s self.

[–] Timecircleline@sh.itjust.works 21 points 1 year ago (16 children)

A friend of mine once said "no one healthy wakes up one day and decides to try heroin, just for fun."

That really stuck with me. There are many reasons why people use substances, and there are many reasons why people may refuse help. This doesn't make them less than. You, as an outsider, have no knowledge or understanding of the circumstances that lead them to where they now are.

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[–] wafflez@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Everyone deserves love, even those who are too lost to help theirselves.

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[–] OhmsLawn@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

The only way tent shelters will ever work without simply adding to the public health crisis, is to heavily legislate urban camping rules.

Make it legal to use an emergency outdoor shelter, provided it has a permit, to be renewed every week, confirms to size and placement regulations, is constructed from flame retardant materials, and (barring hazardous weather) that it's taken down every day from sunrise to sunset.

We then attach to the free permitting process, an identification check, automatic enrollment in welfare services, career counseling, etc. and immediate access to mental health and substance abuse rehabilitation.

Care for those who obey the rules and scrape up those that don't.

We can't just let people rot indefinitely, huddling half naked under a leaky plastic tarp, searching for that last good vein, and call it compassion.

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[–] ondoyant@beehaw.org 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Empathy is reserved for people who try and help themselves.

no

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[–] deegeese@sopuli.xyz 30 points 1 year ago (1 children)

With truly unused land you may have a point. Problem is nobody wants to camp in BFE.

Homeless camps in public parks is a real tragedy of the commons.

[–] stabby_cicada@slrpnk.net 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

What's more important: a place to live or a recreation area?

Our unhoused neighbors have no choice but to live in a public space because society has denied them any private space to live.

People in need using the commons for their needs isn't a tragedy. It's the reason commons exist.

The tragedy is that shelter isn't considered a human right.

[–] AnonymousDeity@sh.itjust.works 33 points 1 year ago (8 children)

In my view it's not about accessing the recreation area - I'd rather that space be used temporarily for occupancy while we fix up society. Having said that, ad-hoc homeless camps have very real safety risks associated with them. Often crime rates near these camps rise, and it's reasonable for residents to also want to feel safe in their neighborhoods.

What we need is funding for real shelters with real long-term addiction and crisis counseling support. Blindly saying "any and all public spaces should be fair use for homeless camps" is not helpful to anyone.

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[–] blazera@kbin.social 24 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Youtuber i seen with a trend of stealth camping in urban locations, had a video of camping overnight in the middle of a roundabout with a lot of shrubbery. And it had kind of a survival horror feel with cops patrolling around, and i remembered...this guy existing in a public space at night shouldnt be this terrifying or feel so taboo.

[–] keeb420@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In general you're correct but camping in a roundabout should be terrifying. You never know if the next person to come along has never been in a roundabout, is raging at anything, is under the influence, or whatever else and might just go plowing through the middle of the thing.

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[–] aracebo@unilem.org 24 points 1 year ago

I basically agree but with a caveat: the majority of people would rather noone is camped in parks. More importantly, people needing to camp in parks is indicative of a far greater problem. I think it's imperative to address the root if we have a hope of effectively combatting homelessness.

[–] Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You don't need to be an empathetic holistic person to get behind free housing for the homeIess. If you're a truly selfish and purely economically oriented person, then you have to admit giving the homless free homes is economically the best solution for all involved. Alternatives include the taxpayer eating the cost of all the damage they do seeking shelter and survival, or paying a ton of money to police to violently deal with them.

If you prefer those to giving them housing, you're choosing options that are more cruel and more costly -- I don't understand how that makes sense and yet plenty of people seem to choose that.

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Because many people perceive homelessness as a proxy for moral failings (such as drug abuse) worthy of punishment.

Of course this is rarely the full picture or even true at all, but we need to get people to understand that this is not a problem that can be solved by punishing people.

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[–] The_Terrible_Humbaba@slrpnk.net 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

For a "Solar punk" instance, this community seems to have very little of the "punk" aspect, and in these comments it sounds more like a "Solar rich liberal" place.

The amount of slander towards homeless people, the propagating of stereotypes, and the removal of personhood in these comments really blows my mind. There are even people defending that homeless people should be sent to prison and have their life managed for them; others claim how it's their own fault they are homeless; some cry about "private property".

And of course a bunch of people claiming this isn't a final/permanent solution, and so it shouldn't be done... as if to say, until we come up with better solutions, these people should just go without shelter. What is really a priority to them, is not having to look at homeless people.

In a nutshell: "It's their own fault! They're probably all heroin addicts anyway. Someone else should come up with and implement better solutions, but in the meantime I don't want to have to see and walk by people who don't have a home!". A Solar ~~Punk~~ Neolib community.

[–] Five@slrpnk.net 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

When a post gets enough points, it does the Lemmy equivalent of "hitting the front page" and comment character becomes indistinguishable from a brigade. Most of the people commenting on this post aren't from the Slrpnk.net instance. Check out the locals who are though -- excellent people every one -- @stabby_cicada@slrpnk.net, @poVoq@slrpnk.net, @punkisundead@slrpnk.net, @j_roby@slrpnk.net. These people are making this instance great.

Also, a shout out to the the nice people from other instances - I see you, and you are awesome: @Timecircleline@sh.itjust.works, @ondoyant@beehaw.org, @257m@lemmy.ml, @TheFriar@lemm.ee, @Maeve@kbin.social, @rockSlayer@lemmy.world, @Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone - thanks for contributing.

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[–] j_roby@slrpnk.net 14 points 1 year ago

The amount of slander towards homeless people, the propagating of stereotypes, and the removal of personhood in these comments really blows my mind. There are even people defending that homeless people should be sent to prison and have their life managed for them; others claim how it’s their own fault they are homeless; some cry about “private property”.

And of course a bunch of people claiming this isn’t a final/permanent solution, and so it shouldn’t be done… as if to say, until we come up with better solutions, these people should just go without shelter. What is really a priority to them, is not having to look at homeless people.

It was absolutely heartbreaking to wake up and see a deluge of comments like what you described above... But please don't throw blame on our instance for that. The vast majority of the comments are from outside this instance.

And I'll accept responsibility too for having posted something "controversial" in a c/ that's lacking active moderation.

^(empathy^ ^shouldn't^ ^be^ ^so^ ^fucking^ ^controversial)^

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[–] HRDS_654@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I'm fine with this in theory, but in practice the homeless/unhoused don't care whether the property is private or not. I have witnessed them trying to set up tents in people's yards multiple times. Not even big yards, we are talking condo yards.

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[–] Five@slrpnk.net 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

"We make the community by defending it: Calling police on people that don’t have a house is a violent act to those seeking shelter in the community they belong to."

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[–] 257m@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I also don't think people realize how much more space efficient tent cities are. If they buy a giant ass suburban that has a driveway half the size of the house and backyard of perfectly manicured grass that no one walks on it brings house prices up. If do actually want them to start getting off the street try your best to support them and be a good person. If not leave them the fuck alone and atleast don't make their lives more difficult than it already is.

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[–] gearheart@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago

This is like me being able to choose not to pay taxes for public areas I don't use.

[–] GreatGrapeApe@reddthat.com 11 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I prefer we consider Michael Moore's proposal from "The Big One". He posited that we have all these empty spaces in wealthier communities in the form of golf courses. He suggested we convert those lands into public housing as they would not only have open space to build on but because the wealthier communities can absorb the schooling costs more easily.

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