It's not really capitalism anymore when the government keeps bailing out businesses that are supposed to fail.
this post was submitted on 11 Sep 2023
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This happens when capital owners get enough wealth and influence to capture government regulatory agencies. This is what any attempt at capitalism will build to.
At least the no true communism people use the actual definition of the system in their argument. What you’re describing is literally capitalist organizations acting on the incentives inherent to the system.
You're being ridiculous. Greed is the "inherent incentive" that leads to regulatory rapture under capitalism and authoritarianism under communism (which one could argue to be the same thing in essence).
The solution is a government of the people, for the people, a.k.a. democracy. Which can choose whichever economic system it damn well pleases, as long as it keeps greed in check through taxation, public services, strong welfare, social discourse, etc. Like social-democratic countries in Europe have been doing for decades. Or try a version of that for communism, I don't care.
Even so, those countries in Europe are still capitalist. They've just tempered it with government policies that restrain it to adequate levels.
In that sense I suppose "this is the least worst system" isn't technically true. Unbridled capitalism from the industrial revolution is incredibly different from restrained European capitalism after all.
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And then when capitalists turn news into an entertainment business you’ll vote for their victory while thinking you’re a populist.
Your solution requires a fair playing field, especially with information and people with wealth and power will work to limit that info. Fox News and it’s ever expanding right wing influence sphere show how much money there is in convincing the average voter to vote to further empower the capital class.
You equate the two but I don’t think you actually understand the fundamental core of these ideas. In capitalism, gathering wealth is the basic core foundation of the system. The hierarchy is spelled out and requires a vast underclass who prop up the lifestyles of those on top with their labor. In communism, the fundamental idea is that hierarchy should be dismantled. The system that was initially labeled communism was described as stateless, classless, and moneyless.
Corrupt individuals can turn literally any government into authoritarianism if given the chance, that’s not inherent to communist ideology. Especially when you consider all the dictators the US has cozied up to for natural resources and such. When billionaires say “we coup who we want” you can’t single communism out for creating authoritarian institutions. It shows a lack of perspective.
Lol dude, this is what happens to virtually every major system. It's just corruption, plain and simple.
Only if you sand off the details. The corruption here is directly incentivized as a way to become more successful in the system. Its incentivized to a much larger degree than any other system based on where power is derived from.
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Of course it is. Capitalism, especially neoliberal capitalism, needs the state to support it. Without the state, who will arrest people who go against the wishes of capital? If there isn't one already, capital will become the state.
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In my experience, the people who work retail and food service are more likely to favor socialism and collective action. But not all of them, of course.
The people who justify capitalism tend to work in higher paid office or managerial jobs. Not all of them, of course, as I am an example, and as are the ton of lower paid office workers that hate their jobs.
Turns out, the people for whom capitalism worked out, tend to like it. Those being crushed by the weight of unsustainable consumption tend to hate it. Go figure.
I see it as an incentive structure problem. Capitalism in itself isn't inherently evil, but what we've created is a system of perverse incentives, where the closer to the top you get, the more incentive there is to fuck everyone below you, and the more capable you are of doing it. People will mostly go for what benefits them most, or at least is perceived to benefit them most. If there was a much larger cost to fucking front line workers, for those in charge, things would change tomorrow. The other part of the problem is the people at the top now have so much influence they can stop changes to the incentive structure.
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I've thought about this a lot. I wonder if a good compromise would be a requirement for maybe 10-20% of all issued and outstanding shares of publicly traded companies to be owned by non-officer employees. It doesn't even have to be given away freely. They could be sold to employees and/or given as part of their total comp. Just enough to get a seat on the board elected by them. Seems reasonable.
Like Germany
Capitalism is great for handling things that are relatively unimportant. So you don't want it for medical, education, infrastructure (including utilities), etc. Its fine for things like fashion or the various things might have around the house. Even then it must be highly regulated.
Taxing rich people to pay for good paying jobs in healthcare, education, and utility/infrastructure maintenance would help everyone.
Economies need to be a cycle. If the rich just hoard and don’t spend then we can’t spend either.
So if they won’t pay a liveable wage, tax them heavily and start paying liveable wages with the money.
Definately. One problem with money is it has no inherent value. It only has value when it is utilized. So hoarding essentially removes money from the economy. Its like potential and kinetic energy.
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Child repeating what their parents and society has told them.
Vs.
Adult who has started to live the reality.
In theory, how would a different system really help?
Currently the people in power manipulate and circumvent the system, do they magically disappear?
There is this belief by so many that somehow, if you create the perfect system, it will somehow overcome human nature or that humans will somehow starting acting collectively altruistic with the right political model.
In most cases, they also imagine themselves in a position of power in this new government, either up in an upper "leadership" class or somehow silently leading "but I'm not a leader", as if somehow the idea itself is so potent that people will just, you know, execute it flawlessly without intervention.
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#'#I'm14aandthisisdeep'
Can you give one example of a long-term, large scale, non-hierarchical system in human society?
Yes, but it's still better than being in the exact same position but having to join a ten year waiting list for a Lada.
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I've never seen an adolescents defend capitalism. They tend to be either apolitical or anarchists.
This has to be a lie. I've never seen a single kid educated enough to even know what anarchy is. But they're definitely dumb enough to parrot their parents.
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