Lift the inhumane sanctions/embargo on Cuba already.
this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2024
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I might have supported that before their support of the Kremlin's barbaric land grab in Ukraine.
They need to trade with people for money and food. If their closest neighbor let them trade, I guarantee Cuba would be saying the opposite to stay on the good side of them. But since they can't, and Russia was iced out of the world economy pretty much, of course they'd extend a hand to Cuba, which is similarly iced out. And of course they'd accept for the good of their people. Who knows if they actually care how that war goes, they're just a tiny island nation that wants to be able to eat and survive. We can't blame them for making decisions under this kind of duress.
By the same logic the entire planet should’ve already sanctioned and embargoed Israel (for what it's doing in Palestine) and the US for doing the exact same thing as Russia but in Iraq (starting an illegal war) but I don’t see that happening.
Cuba is saying these things because Russia is one of the few countries still willing to trade with them. They’ve been hit by crippling sanctions for decades for doing nothing wrong and they’re trying to find ways to survive. End the embargo and you’ll see that change quite quickly.
Who du they think they are at war with?
Capitalism
Well then they lost that war a long time ago, as the long line of beach resorts across the Cuban coastline would show you.
Just because Americans can't (easily) go to them, doesn't mean privately-owned places like this don't exist there:
Edit: Not one downvoter has explained how you can have privately and corporate-owned luxury resorts in a non-capitalist country. Can't imagine why.
Not one downvoter has explained how you can have privately and corporate-owned luxury resorts in a non-capitalist country. Can't imagine why.
Oooh I love this false dichotomy because if every government that allows for any form of corporate owned private property to exist is capitalist then we can ascribe basically all evil to capitalism. Heck even the USSR was capitalist by your logic. Capitalists did the holodomor.
The USSR was evidently state capitalist.
Yeah, it was a giant company town.
How is this a dichotomy? How does private ownership and profit exist in a communist state? That's pretty much the definition of capitalism.
I understand wanting Cuba to be a communist country, but it's no more communist than China.
You tell me where Marx says private ownership and enriching corporate profits are features of communism.
Every mode of production contains elements of its former, according to Marx, exactly because we have to understand human development and our current paradigm through historical materialism.
To say that a communist nation cannot contain capitalist components as its non fundamental mode of production is as stupid as saying Britain is not capitalist because they have a king.
That is not in any way the same. Either there are hierarchies of power and the people at the top get rich and corporations make profits or it’s a communist country. You can’t have it both ways no matter how much you want to take the concept of communality from communism.
You need to be able to distinguish between a country's primary mode of production versus the scope of its total. A "perfect" capitalist or communist one will likely never exist, at least not any time soon. You cannot ignore the aspects of the basis on which development happens.
And yet there were plenty of other communist countries in the 20th century that did not have any corporations making profits. Why is Cuba special in this regard?
Were there really in accordance with the definition you are trying to enforce?
Well I sure as hell know that corporations and profit don't belong with whatever definition of communism you seem to be suggestion.
The very idea that allowing corporate profits are still communist as long as it's not the primary mode of production is nonsense. If every single thing in Cuba was privatized apart from its tobacco industry, its largest export, would you say it was still a communist country?
I'm also curious how you'll defend Cuba's three largest exports being addictive, carcinogenic substances. And yes, to pre-empt the whataboutism, I know the U.S. exports a whole lot of toxic shit, but we're not talking about the U.S.
I never said anything about Cuba specifically. I made a general remark that an analysis of whether a country is socialist or not has to concern itself with what is the primary mode of production. I also wanted to bring in historical materialism because you seemed to talk about Marx without (seemingly) understanding this very important part of his contributions.
To be clear, my position was, and still is, that I find your analysis faulty, regardless of what I think would be the right conclusion on Cuba being communist.
Does the United States having food stamps and public education make it a socialist country?
That is in no way the same. Have you even read Capital or the Communist Manifesto?
Getting pissed off at me that private ownership and profit are not things that belong in communism is silly. Based on that argument, the U.S. isn't a socialist country, it's a communist one.
I'm a different person. I'm not pissed, I'm just making casual conversation.
Communism and capitalism as they were described in the literature both died in 93 and 08 respectively.
Just like the current capitalist system in the US cannot function without massive subsidies and bailouts, I'd imagine the current communist systems require private enterprises to keep parts of their system functioning.
Then I guess it isn't right to call Cuba communist, as much as that pisses some people off.
If communism requires private enterprise, it isn't communism. The word 'communism' comes from 'communal' That is not communal. Find another word.
I agree, and honestly a rebranding would go a long way to improving its appeal to the average person
Pretty easily, actually. Socialist states don't exist in a vacuum, they need money for trade and resources like every one else. This reality is why all actual socialist ideologies are globalist in ambition btw. It doesn't do your socialized industry any good if you have to buy your materials from a slave mine.
Ideology alone won't buy Cuba medicine, or industrial tools. The fact is that the hemisphere they're in is dominated by America and capitalism is something you either work around or starve under.
It'd be nice if Cuba could have afforded to build the resorts as worker co-ops or whatever but it's an economic miracle that they exist as a nation at all with the eternal enmity of America trying to choke them to death for seventy years.
Only a delusional purist won't acknowledge that it takes money and resources to build things, and all the foreign investors want a, you know, investment. Socialism is almost always considered a goal to transition to, and not an absolute requirement to be enacted day one.
Unless you want to live on an anarcho-primitavist farm somewhere anyways, and, honestly, they're the ones most likely to survive this coming collapse so I guess they'll either get the last laugh or die to the raiders like everyone else.
And yet private industry which enriched corporations was not a feature of communist countries in the 20th century. They didn't need to enrich individuals and create profit for private businesses.
Those aren't nationalized resort hotels. Nationalized resort hotels could make lots of money from tourists too.
I tend to agree, but there's a pretty large difference in the resources available to China, Russia, and even Vietnam and North Korea and those available to the island nation of Cuba.
I don't like it, but I also don't like dictatorships, so they're going to do what they're going to do. It's not there isn't plenty of socialist theory that revolves around the idea of transitionary states and regulated liberalization.
Anyone else read this in Cherdenko's voice lol?
Well, they have been under US sanctions for a long time now. That's what started the Pacific side of WWII.
Mmm… sort of, but that telling of the situation also skips over a ton of context.
US sanctions against Imperial Japan were the proximate casus belli for the IJN attack Pearl Harbor and causing the US to actually join the war, but the sanctions were absolutely precipitated by other things Japan was doing in the years leading up to Pearl Harbor. The trade sanctions were enacted in more or less direct response to Imperial Japanese military adventurism and rather flagrant violations of the Washington Naval Treaty (though it is definitely fair to say that the force limitations imposed by the treaty were somewhat onerous and biased towards established powers, if considered in a geopolitical vacuum).
The effects of the Communist revolution and the US response to it were so powerful that they went back in time by 20 years to start WW2?
I've read this like five times and I have no idea what the heck you're trying to get at.
The person said Cuba being under US sanctions is what caused the Pacific side of WWII. What they were TRYING to say is that Cuba has been under sanctions, and that OTHER, unrelated sanctions were the cause of the Pacific side of WWII; but they used indefinite pronouns and therefor had a confusing sentence.
The joke is about the unintended interpretation of the sentence.
Ah. So the joke is he's bad at reading.
Maynarkh said that Cuba has been under US sanctions, and also that US sanctions started the Japan-US conflict during WWII. Gravitas has misinterpreted it, intentionally or not, for it to mean that US sanctions on Cuba started the Japan-US war.
The user he responded to said the sanctions affected WW2 when the sanction happened much later.
Sanctions on Japan. That was extremely obvious in context. I thought they had a point beyond being unable to read.
back in time by 20 years to start WW2
Boy here is posting from all the way back in 1959….
Yes.
Didn't we already establish that nuking hurricanes won't work?
Why ask yourself whose fault is it when someone already answered.
I took this picture in Havana. I quite liked Cuba and its people and culture.
great pic! I would like to visit Cuba, but I haven't figured out how to travel there comfortably without access to my American bank account.