Signing with "all rights reserved" or "without recourse", which they believe makes the signature impotent, a meaningless mark on a piece of paper instead of something legally-binding.

God you just know these dumbasses think they're so smart.

[–] scytale@lemm.ee 52 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Lmao if adding that to their signature means it's not legally binding, then the title and deed for the house isn't legally binding either; so how do they expect to get the house.

[–] spicytuna62@lemmy.world 24 points 4 months ago

No, no, no! It's rules for thee. None for me.

[–] OutsizedWalrus@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago

And, they’d be committing fraud since they’re inducing the other party to believe it’s a valid signature.

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago

Possession is 9/10s of the uh law.

[–] kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 24 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Even if that nonsense actually did mean anything at all legally, why would he think that would be acceptable to the other party? Dude thinks he can do the equivalent of making an agreement while crossing his fingers right in front of their face and they're going to be like "yeah, this is fine".

And that's before the fact that, if the signature doesn't bind the agreement, then there is no agreement and that goes both ways. You're not held to the terms of the agreement and neither are they, meaning no house for you.

Or does he somehow think that since they signed for-realsies and he signed with an attached asterisk that says "psych!" that they somehow legally owe him the house and he owes them nothing? Could you imagine if the world actually worked that way? Why would anyone ever enter into a contract like that? These people who think that's reality do not seem to realize what chaos such a system would actually bring.

[–] gerbler@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It's not about everyone doing it, it's about them being special and having secret knowledge. They want to have all the protections of the law without any of the consequences.

[–] kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

The problem with them being the only ones with this special magical legal knowledge that no one else knows about is that the people executing the law also do not know about it. If the police, lawyers, prosecutors and judges do not know that your magic words negate all responsibility from the law... guess what it doesn't do...

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago

It's at the end of movie credits, so it means something legal!

[–] bitchkat@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

[+] someguy3@lemmy.world -12 points 4 months ago (3 children)

I mean real estate agents are crazy to think they deserve the pay they get.

[–] NoIWontPickAName@kbin.earth 21 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Why? Mine did a shit ton of work for me and fought the sellers to get them to do the shit the appraiser wanted done.

As well as working for almost a year looking at different houses before we finally found the right one

[–] Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com 7 points 4 months ago (3 children)

The average home price in the United States was $495,100 in the second quarter of 2023

3% (as customary is 6%, split evenly to each realtor) of 485100 is about 15k

Why? Mine did a shit ton of work for me and fought the sellers to get them to do the shit the appraiser wanted done.

So a few hours of emails and phone calls is somehow $15k worth of work?

As well as working for almost a year looking at different houses before we finally found the right one

They probably had 50 other clients also during that time. Some of them pan out and is the 15k payday. Ultimately they only need to sell (or buy) like 10 houses a year to make a better living than you likely have. Less than 1 a month.

[–] realbadat@programming.dev 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Do you think a house gets sold every day, or that everyone ends up buying? Or that they even get that $15k as take home?

The industry around home sales is absolutely gross, but the broker is taking a cut here. Not all real estate agents are brokers, in fact most are not. On average, most agents are making as little as $60k/yr and as high as $100k/year, region dependant. Average is going to be around $85k. Above that $100k mark is the top quartile, and above $130k-ish is going to be the top 10%.

It's not as lucrative as you think it is.

[–] Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com -3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Do you think a house gets sold every day,

Please point me to where I said "every day". Pretty sure I said "less than 1 a month". Far from "every day".

or that everyone ends up buying?

Uh...

They probably had 50 other clients also during that time. My point with that statement was originally that the "hours of work" you think they did for you... They weren't working just for you. And the one sale that took you months... They likely had several other sales in that same period of time. Agents that I've worked with in the past were working with upwards of 20-30 showings at any given week. If only 1% of that yields a sale then it's about (gasp) ~1 sale a month! [52*~25*.01=13]

Or that they even get that $15k as take home?

Never said take home either. But if I make 1 sale a month... and I get 15k out of that sale... and after everything is done, walk away with HALF... 7.5*12 = 90k... That's STILL MORE THAN MOST PEOPLE. My point has literally not even close to changed.

On average, most agents are making as little as $60k/yr and as high as $100k/year, region dependant.

And? If your pulling those numbers from BLS or similar sources... You're missing the fact that all of these realtors work under LLCs and that the 60-100k is take home. Which ignores that the LLC owns the car they drive, the cell they use, the miles they drive, etc... My own LLC does the same thing. I take home 80k, my company pulls in 160k, but a good chunk goes to operating costs and the rest sits in the company to grow it(or if contracts dry up, the continue operating until I can obtain new ones). They're doing the same shit. They have access to the added funds.

Above that $100k mark is the top quartile, and above $130k-ish is going to be the top 10%.

Duh? Those that make more than one sale a month! Almost like I already addressed this.

It’s not as lucrative as you think it is.

It's exactly as lucrative as I think it is. And all your "Arguments" to change my opinion fall flat at best. Show me realtors who only make 1% or less per home they sell (keep in mind that this is still "JUST" $4,951 per home on average) and I'll shut the fuck up. Until then you're wrong. And if you're going to tell me that I've said something I didn't say again... I'm just going to block you.

And BTW...

https://www.homelight.com/blog/how-many-homes-does-a-realtor-sell-a-year/

According to NAR, Realtors completed a median of 12 residential “transaction sides” in 2022. Keep in mind that transaction sides are not a strict measure of homes sold. An agent earns a transaction side when they help either a buyer or a seller close a sale.

So my "One sale a month" was dead on accurate.

And it also turns out in that same link... the BLS data would be severely tainted by one simple fact...

Part-timers and hobbyists sell fewer homes
Compared to the high flying agents on reality TV shows, it might surprise you to learn that Realtors worked a median 30 hours per week in 2022, according to the NAR, and made a median gross income of $56,400. However, these figures also account for Realtors who don’t pursue real estate as a full-time job.

[–] realbadat@programming.dev 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Clearly, you should be in real estate immediately. It's obviously super easy, and with your math that's super accurate and in no way an understanding far separate from reality, clearly you'll be a multi-millionaire within a few short months.

Good luck!

[–] Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com 1 points 4 months ago

Ah yes, you misrepresent a bunch of shit that I said.. I call it out... and even back most of it with evidence. You turn into a child and run away. Congrats!

[–] NoIWontPickAName@kbin.earth 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Mine didn’t get anywhere near that much and I think she earned every penny of it.

I tried to go at it without one at first and I know exactly how hard that was, I have no doubt that she earned every penny of what she got.

Also is it illegal to tip a realtor or mortgage loan officer?

Because they both refused the money I tried to tip them very quickly and firmly.

[–] BottleOfAlkahest@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

In some states it's illegal and in some others just highly discouraged to tip your realtor. A top to your mortgage loan officer would probably look like a bribe. Not sure outside the US though.

[–] NoIWontPickAName@kbin.earth 2 points 4 months ago

That’s understandable but a shame at the same time.

They both worked really hard for me, so far as them being the ones to text me after 5 about something

[–] bitchkat@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Why would you tip your realtor or loan officer?

[–] NoIWontPickAName@kbin.earth 1 points 4 months ago

Because they both did a kick ass job for me, to the point of working outside business hours to answer all my questions

[–] bitchkat@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago

They realtor doesn't get all of that $15k. I forget the actual numbers but the company they work for gets a chunk as well as other people. Yes, there is a $15k commission but that's not all going to the agent.

[–] spicytuna62@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Our agent was a cool dude. It was the sellers that were always out of their mind. The lady who sold us our house hired a junk hauler to clean the attic. He had an accident and fell through the ceiling. No big. He said he'd cover the cost of repair. She didn't want to do any of the work to make it happen, though. She said we needed to arrange the repair.

Insanity. Only in the market we've been in would this kind of thing be acceptable. But we'd put offers in on about 15 different houses. All of them got outbid. Not only was this one the least expensive, it's also one of the better built ones (fully brick clad, for starters). It was our first offer to be taken. We were exhausted with the process and ready to move. So I called the handyman and arranged the repair.

And then I called the junk hauler who said he'd cover the cost of repair. And when I told him the damage was $350, he RENEGGED. Said that was too steep. Couldn't we find someone cheaper? He will have lost money on this job. Blah blah blah. I told him look, I don't care about 350 bucks. And if he didn't want to pay, then whatever, I have nothing in writing. But the house had to be inspected after that and ofc it shows in the report and so that was a shitty thing for him to do. And I hung up the phone.

4 weeks later, I got a check in the mail for $300. Even in making it right, the bastard cheaped out on me.

I hope this is it. I love my house. It needs love here and there. It's old, but it's got great bones. Plus, it's in a really nice area close to a lot of stuff. I do NOT want to deal with this bullshit for at least another 30 years.

[–] Delonix@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

Lol cool story thanks for sharing, hoping to get into the market soon while prices are at all time highs.. "Harold face"

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

I'm amazed at the downvotes, people stanning for realtOrs now? They work, but it's not a hard job, no extensive education, no incentive to get lower prices because that actually eats into their cut, they resist any improvements to the system, and frankly love the high prices because it just earns them more since they work on % of sale value.

[–] vaquedoso@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I'm not here to argue with you, rather than to point out it's disingenious to say it's not hard work. Also, there is actually an incentive to get lower prices, for if they weren't trying to get one people would choose another realtor. Also, you don't have to censor the world realtor.

[+] someguy3@lemmy.world -8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

JFC it's hard work in the sense that most jobs are hard work. But it's not hard work like engineering, tech, etc.

[–] pivot_root@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

A little privileged there to be specifying jobs that require tens of thousands of dollars of education as a prerequisite, no?

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world -1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Dude that's half the point. Realtors are paid so much and it doesn't even require/take much. I never thought I'd expect people defending realtors.

[–] pivot_root@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Oh, I don't give a crap about the realtors. I'm just not a fan of STEM being placed above other fields when it's inaccessible to people without either having been born into money or taking on substantial debts.

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

It's just what came to mind. Teachers, trades, technicians, whatever. Realtor takes like a couple week course or something.

And in case people misread me, yes I think there should be good jobs without post secondary. Realtors are excessive and they fight to keep their effective monopoly and effective collusion.

[–] TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.works 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

As a software engineer, I can say that almost all Realtors work harder and longer than I do. My job isn't really hard work. It can be stressful, and it requires a good chunk of prerequisite knowledge, but it is not 'hard work'.

I think you have the wrong idea of what hard work is. Go do some construction, landscaping, retail, or work in a kitchen/restaurant if you really want to see hard work.

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world -4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

There's complicated (hard) work, and there's physically demanding (hard) work. Realtor is neither.

[–] Telodzrum@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

Imagine thinking that engineering is hard work. Go learn a science, dude.

[–] Tarquinn2049@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

The percentage they get has come down as house prices went up relatively. And they for sure still have to do a good job for you. Ideally they should save you as much as they make in the end. If your agent didn't meet those expectations, they should be out of business soon.

[–] Tarquinn2049@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but most do. If you didn't like yours, pick a different one next time, they didn't deserve your business.

[–] pelletbucket@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago

there's barely any ethical employment under capitalism dude