this post was submitted on 17 Jun 2024
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Baldur's Gate 3

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Baldur’s Gate 3 is a story-rich, party-based RPG set in the universe of Dungeons & Dragons, where your choices shape a tale of fellowship and betrayal, survival and sacrifice, and the lure of absolute power. (Website)

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[–] yourNewFavouriteUser@sh.itjust.works 76 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I find Astarion severely overrated

[–] kaffiene@lemmy.world 25 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I leave him out entirely. Can't stand him

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[–] proton_lynx@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago

I killed him after he tried to bite me. I felt a little bit guilty and replayed that part but letting him draw a little blood from me. He killed me and the next day acted like nothing had happened, like he didn't know why I was dead. Fuck that guy, reloaded the save where I killed him.

[–] Zehzin@lemmy.world 68 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

Act 3 destroys the pacing

They should have just let you dye equipment at will from the character screen

The Emperor isn't even that hot

[–] ShaunaTheDead@fedia.io 44 points 4 months ago

It's weird, but I suspect that Act 2 and Act 3 were swapped originally. It makes more sense to have Act 2 be where you go to Baldur's Gate, learn more about your companions, resolve their personal stories, explore a large open map, and THEN move on to the big confrontation against the Absolute at the tower.

From a story perspective it's really weird how you confront the Absolute and then go on to sort of aimlessly do all that other stuff in Baldur's Gate. It makes more sense if the story acts are swapped, imo.

[–] ayaya@lemdro.id 19 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You can tell Act 3 had the least amount of polish put into it. Act 1 and 2 feel very carefully and intentionally designed. You can tell they planned everything out. Act 3 feels like it was rushed and they had to make a lot of compromises.

The pacing is the most obvious thing but there's also stuff like why is Gortash, the literal ruler of the city, being sworn into power in a random fort in the lower city instead of you know... the actual castle?

[–] bolexforsoup@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 4 months ago

I always describe it like this:

Act 1 is a great sandbox and the most D&D like experience as a result.

Act 2 is the strongest story and writing, much more focused and tightly built. Some cool D&D like dungeoneering/puzzles to boot.

Act 3 is what happens when you don’t leave enough time and energy to wrap it all up. It tried to be as expansive (more even) as Act 1 and they couldn’t keep up with the writing. They also should’ve done away with the entire section before you actually enter the city. Talk about a momentum killer.

[–] bolexforsoup@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I don’t think your act 3 take is particularly controversial tbh

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 54 points 4 months ago (2 children)

The game is good despite DND 5e's rules, not because of them.

Unfortunately, DND is mega popular. Many people have never played anything else. Many people have never even played it. So any discussion about it has a "of course 15 strength is +2, isn't that just how RPGs work?" segment where you have to establish that DND is in fact weird.

[–] MarcomachtKuchen@feddit.de 13 points 4 months ago

Hard agree the ruleset is the mayor shackle to the game. I think the DnD part also includes the whole lore of the forgotten realms which is the incredible foundation in which the game could bloom tho. I'm not saying larian can't create fantastic worlds and I'm looking forward to the next games, but the lore aspect of the DnD license is mayorly beneficial to the game

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[–] Cikos@lemmy.world 39 points 4 months ago (3 children)

4 max party size was a mistake

[–] Zehzin@lemmy.world 27 points 4 months ago (1 children)

If they went any higher they'd have to make some encounters even larger and lengthier for balance, and some of those encounters already feel like they go on forever 💀

[–] deltapi@lemmy.world 17 points 4 months ago

I installed the 16-member party Mod and took all the origin characters (except urge) around for a while. Combat became a chore. Probably the biggest grievance is they'd block each other's movement, but it just took REALLY long to do combat with them all present.

[–] Shiggles@sh.itjust.works 20 points 4 months ago

Isn’t it laughably easy to mod? I’m okay with them saying “this is what we balanced for, anything else is on you”, though it should be like those divinity “prepackaged mods” like the zoomy boots

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[–] witty_username@feddit.nl 36 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I dont care for the lengthy skill checks with the dice roll animation

[–] Stovetop@lemmy.world 32 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You are able to click again to skip the animation. The rest of the setup though is important to be able to apply bonuses.

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[–] MisterNeon@lemmy.world 34 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I find all the party members insufferable. I change their classes almost immediately for better synergy or I switch them out for the soulless NPC's Withers has. Ironically, I've been D&D 5E Dungeon Master numerous times and I find the party members to be absolutely authentic characters real people would play. Good work Larian, ya made the characters so table top believable that I want to find a new group to play with.

[–] sneezycat@sopuli.xyz 28 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I loved the character design because I hated the characters too: Lae'zel was a close minded warrior, Shadowheart a smartass, Gael Mr nice guy not so nice when you do something he doesn't approve, Astarion the vampire rapist... Etc.

But then I kept on playing and I realized they were really deep characters. Lae'zel was indoctrinated super hard, but she's smart and can recognize when things don't make sense, even if she totally believes those things. Shadowheart has been lying to everyone, including herself, and putting a mask on; but she's a really sweet woman. Astarion was abused in every possible way for centuries, and being a total asshole is his way to cope.

My point is, yeah, the characters are flawed and can come across as dicks, but many real people do too until you understand their circumstances. Not saying that what they do is justified, just that they are interesting characters and redeemable from my PoV.

[–] Zehzin@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I feel like a lot of characters were just standard RPG archetypes with maybe a wrinkle added in. Like Wyll is the classic "Warlock that makes the deal for the right reasons" and the wrinkle is that he has dad issues.

Compare him to one of my favorite RPG companions. Classic elf wizard nerd with an abusive father that made him hit the books and hit him also... but because of his childhood trauma his soul's past life, a foul mouthed woman from a long time ago awoke within him and sometimes he dissociates and she takes control because she wants him to be assertive... which, along with his fears of animancy, caused him to have an obsession with control, and why he accepted to join the baddies some time before you meet him.

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[–] mox@lemmy.sdf.org 34 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I wish they had done it without Tencent.

[–] Blaze@reddthat.com 12 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Interesting, I didn't even know Tencent was involved, was their influence very visible?

[–] S_H_K@lemmy.dbzer0.com 25 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (5 children)

The amount of money that was dropped on the making of the game is a clue but unpopular opinion? Who's a fan of tencent anyway?
For those who don't have the context Tencent is a huge Chinese company that has many investments in games. They are the type that plays it silently usually invest and they do let the people do their thing then take their share. But the problem is two fold first of all you cannot start saying much abou the ccp tencent wouldn't send you to jail but would pull the plung of the funding. Secondly any client info that ends in Tencent hands is potentially viewable by the ccp. There's no need of a Snowden to tell you that, the government made it law so if you buy the game your data goes to China.

[–] mox@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 4 months ago

but unpopular opinion?

I don't think Tencent's involvement is common knowledge among BG3 players. It's hard to have an opinion about something you're unaware of.

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[–] Moonguide@lemmy.ml 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

They don't have a controlling share on Larian, but they don't own an insignificant amount of it. I wouldn't say it is noticeable. Doesn't have MTX, which I'm sure they would've loved.

[–] Batadon@lemm.ee 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Isn't Larian independent?

Edit: Official statement on shareholders (near the end of the video)

[–] Stovetop@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago (3 children)

It's a situation similar to Epic. The controlling shares are in the hands of the CEO, Swen Vincke in this case. But at least Tencent only owns 30% of Larian, which is better than 49% of Epic, even if the end result is effectively no different.

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[–] Coelacanth@feddit.nu 32 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I don't think the writing is particularly good, and it is particularly problematic in Act 3. The pacing falls apart, all urgency disappears and there is also a big problem with the villains. Gortash and Orin are pretty bad characters and the nebulous blob that is the Nether Brain is not a compelling antagonist. The Emperor is a pretty interesting character, but he sadly doesn't really play out as an antagonist - which I find a massive waste in itself. It also felt like some parts of the plot only make sense if you're playing as Dark Urge.

The companions all being extremely horny and protagonist-sexual gives off a weird vibe, and the progression and design of the relationship system is extremely bad. As an example, Shadowheart can say you're her soulmate that changed her whole life on like the second day you spend together! There is also a severe lack of bonding moments that are purely adventure party/friendship and not avenues for everyone else to hit on you.

There being literally 0 consequences for dabbling in Mind Flayer powers felt weird and bad and generally undercut the impact of the entire main story. There is no reason not to fill out your whole tadpole tree (including becoming half illithid), and there is no reward for completely abstaining. No specific dialogue, no impact on the ending. Not even an achievement.

Lots of small attempts at fanservice for fans of BG 1&2 feel like surface level lipservice made by people who never played the originals. The Flail of Ages being a shitty rare regular flail sold in a random shop is just depressing.

I wish they left more BG 1&2 characters alone if they didn't know exactly what to do with them. Jaheira is mostly fine, but even Minsc felt out of place and shoehorned in and the character assassinations of Viconia and Sarevok just felt terrible. Especially since the role of both of those characters in the plot could have easily been replaced with brand new NPCs.

On a similar note, it strikes me as extremely weird that they seemingly outright refused to have any voice actor reprise their role. Heidi Shannon has disappeared from the face of the earth so Jaheira needed to be recast, but Grey DeLisle (Viconia) and Kevin Michael Richardson (Sarevok) are still out there working for example and Jim Cummings (Minsc) was asking random fans at cons to remind Larian he exists.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I don't think the writing is particularly good, and it is particularly problematic in Act 3. The pacing falls apart, all urgency disappears

Overall I disagree with you. I loved the writing in the game, and the companion back stories are rich, and full of tragedy. But I completely agree with you about act 3. We're smack dab in the middle of literally trying to save the entire world. We just defeated a major contributor to the master plan. We finally travel to Baldur's Gate, close to accomplishing our goal... and we stop all of that to help a little kid find their mommy, investigate dangerous toys, and go all detective mode for a missing prostitute. I couldn't figure out how to get into Baldur's Gate because I had rejected all of those story lines. They felt completely out of character, and not something I had time to worry about with the fate of humanity hanging in the balance. I think that they really could have used a smoother transition from act 2 to act 3.

[–] Don_alForno@feddit.de 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

the companion back stories are rich, and full of tragedy.

The thing is, they're mostly exposition dumped at you. All of them already went through the worst of it and tell you about it. To me, Larian fell in the old TTRPG trap of making up those elaborate grandiose backgrounds for your characters and expecting the other players to be impressed instead of writing the story of their adventures during the actual game.

I was there when Jaheira found Khalid's corpse. I accompanied Nalia when she came back to a ruined home and a dead father. I broke Imoen out of the wizard's asylum.

Karlach told me how bad the hells used to be and we proceeded to make a few trips to the blacksmith together. Wyll told me of his pact and his crazy adventures, the rest just happened to us at camp. Gale told me he banged a goddess and I got to make a persuasion check at the end. Astarion told me of the torture he suffered, and the resolution was done in 2 fights after we met zero vampires before the last room (BG2's Bodhi and her lair were so much ahead of this it's not even funny).

Shadowheart is the only one I felt had a story that I actually experienced with her and wasn't just politely informed of. Oh, and Minthara, but the evil play through really got the short straw in any other way.

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[–] cyd@lemmy.world 26 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

It was too long and had too much content.

Seriously, though. In the last act, Baldur's Gate was so huge and took so long to explore that it destroyed the momentum of the overall story. (The evil army is invading! Oh wait, they are now hiding underground doing nothing, so that you can take your time exploring the city).

[–] Nosavingthrow@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It felt like turning in quest coupons and getting your magic item/promise of aid and otherwise very low stakes.

[–] cyd@lemmy.world 21 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

In terms of pacing and stakes, it would have made much more sense for the PCs to have gone to Baldur's Gate earlier in the game to do all the "adventurers faffing around" stuff, then revisited the city during the endgame. Though it would have clashed with their "each act is one set of maps" setup.

Instead, in the last act we have Gortash, supposed 5D chess player, centering all his plans on the PCs flipping to his side. Then he sits back and lets them wander all over the city, undermining him. Ultimately, when they don't take up his offer, his backup plan is "whelp, guess I'll die".

Maybe the excuse is that the Elder Brain was making him stupid...

[–] DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 4 months ago

Would have been nice to finish the game then still be able to poke around in all the acts.

[–] p5yk0t1km1r4ge@lemmy.world 24 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (6 children)

The game is not that big, it's far more linear than advertised, the maps aren't really that big, and loot is lacking. The only reason people have 100+ hours is due to extensive conversations, dialogue, and the fact that it gives you no direction. Once you know what to do and where to go, the games shortness becomes apparent. The spell list is underwhelming, and so are the number of classes available. Not producing an expansion is going to hurt longevity, and eventually, people will stop playing because of it. The level cap sucks. Yes, I know, you dont need to be level 20, but who cares if you're brokenly op? It's supposed to be fun, and believe it or not, there are people (like myself) who DO enjoy grinding levels, and there are more of us than people realize. The level cap is a huge miss. The story is not that great (I'd even go so far to say it was very clearly rushed), and the only thing holding it up are the party member quests, which are far too easy to fuck up thanks to the lack of direction. Exploration is strongly discouraged due to the abysmal loot, and it feels unrewarding. There aren't enough legendaries, and you often stick with the same weapons throughout the campaign and are rarely encouraged to try something new. Also, horny companion system makes no sense. Please, please tell me why I was a complete, total shithead to gale and halsin yet they still both "confessed their love" to me? Like, I literally went out of my way to earn their disapproval, and I chose the shittiest dialogue options with them every opportunity I could, and they still said they wanted to sleep with me. Wtf?

mic drop

Fight me.

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[–] MarcomachtKuchen@feddit.de 16 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The spell VFX don't feel incredible after level 3.

[–] Zehzin@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago

Me casting Curriculum of Strategy: Artistry of War expecting the coolest shit and getting lame ass skulls that don't even explode

[–] makeshiftreaper@lemmy.world 14 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Gale's "bad" ending is actually the best ending in the game.

Who cares that he doesn't get character growth, he disappointed a cat and an old man, HE'S A GOD! Seriously, nothing else matters. So what if Ao is going to make him earn his spot on the pantheon? He's immortal, he has literally forever to do it. Sure professor Gale is fun and more chill, but he's still mortal. In six months Gale does what Vlaakith has been attempting for centuries. I don't know how you can be disappointed in someone for successfully becoming a god

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[–] 3aqn5k6ryk@lemmy.world 12 points 4 months ago

No physical copy on release day.

[–] dwindling7373@feddit.it 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

The marketing oversold the idea that if you wanted to do something it would amaze you to find it was expected by the designers.

Most of the, I thought at the time, very obvious thing I wanted to explore thematically were not there. Also, Romance felt clunky and unnuanced.

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[–] zero_spelled_with_an_ecks@programming.dev 7 points 4 months ago (3 children)

I hate multiplayer in pretty much any game where there's a lot of menuing. And being able to wander off? There's a reason you don't split the party IRL and it holds here. Having a shopping session also is boring IRL and it is here, too. Oh, there was important plot stuff happening? I didn't know the other person was in a conversation.

[–] Zehzin@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Just let me auto follow the party leader, please

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[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago

There's a setting, I think it's called eaves drop mode, where you will automatically listen in on any conversation that another player initiates.

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[–] state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 4 months ago (8 children)

I strongly dislike turn-based combat and I would love an option for real time combat. I just want fights to be over, they distract me from enjoying games. With real time combat I just mash the same attacks until it is over. BG3's combat is a fucking chore and it's the only reason I abandoned the game on the second map (in that monastery ruin).

[–] BigWumbo@lemmy.world 24 points 4 months ago (5 children)
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[–] Commiunism@lemmy.wtf 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I like the "Free The Artist" side quest.

That is all.

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