this post was submitted on 11 Sep 2024
76 points (98.7% liked)

Europe

1482 readers
622 users here now

News and information from Europe ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ

(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)

Rules (2024-08-30)

  1. This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
  2. No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
  3. Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
  4. No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism.
  5. Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
  6. If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
  7. Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in !yurop@lemm.ee. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
  8. Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
  9. No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)

(This list may get expanded when necessary.)

We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.

If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.

If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the mods: @federalreverse@feddit.org, @poVoq@slrpnk.net, or @anzo@programming.dev.

founded 4 months ago
MODERATORS
 

Loreto Gesualdo, the president of the Italian Federation of Medical-Scientific Societies (Fism), has proposed legislation to suspend free access to medical care for three years for those who assault healthcare workers or damage health facilities.

Fism reported more than 16,000 verbal and physical attacks against doctors and nurses in Italian hospitals in 2023 alone.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[โ€“] lgsp@feddit.it 25 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Using army for public order, why? Soldiers are trained to fight, not ti deal with problematic, probably unarmed people.

Just use the police. There used to be police posts at ERs, they were cut. We don't need a new solution...

[โ€“] 5ibelius9insterberg@feddit.org 16 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Using army for public order, why?

Fascism. Getting people used to it by making it seem necessary.

[โ€“] MrAlagos@feddit.it 6 points 1 month ago

Italian people are already used to having the army do public order tasks; operation "safe roads" was introduced in 2008 and has been renewed ever since, by every government. This operation is essentially just the use of military personnel for patrol, deterrence and setting checkpoint in Italian cities.

I believe it is important to sooner or later discuss this and to end it, as it has negative effects on the soldiers and also in general on how law enforcement is structured and thought of by governments and politicians. However this is by no means a proposal that for the first time would give military personnel responsibilities for public order nor it has anything to do with fascism.

[โ€“] Successful_Try543@feddit.org 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

Does the color of the uniform of the officer armed with an MP really matter?

[โ€“] the_strange@feddit.org 6 points 1 month ago (2 children)

There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state. The other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.

From Adama in Battlestar Galactica

[โ€“] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago

So say we all.

[โ€“] Kissaki@feddit.org 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

The military serving civil duties can also connect them more to the citizens they're supposed to protect. Be it natural disasters, epidemics, etc.

If all you do is focus on military hierarchy that's all you have, and far away from the people.

[โ€“] the_strange@feddit.org 3 points 1 month ago

Agreed. The important difference here is that in these cases they do not serve in their form as a (military) force. They have no more authority in these situations than a random citizen already performing said tasks. Performing policing duties, they inherently have power and authority.

[โ€“] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[โ€“] Successful_Try543@feddit.org 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I know, but does it make you feel different or affect your behaviour wether the uniform is blue/black or olive green?
Additionally, it is about Italy, where some police forces, the Carabinieri, are officially part of the armed forces but, beside military tasks, under control of the ministry of internal affairs.

[โ€“] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

It does actually make me feel different. But I'm not from a place that's used to militarized police so it might be different from Italians. With Carabinieri the lines could be a lot more blurred over there and apparently military already does some road safety (?) stuff. So military policing is already an existing thing there.

[โ€“] lgsp@feddit.it 4 points 1 month ago

Carabinieri are a police force that is under military hierarchy, but they are trained to operate in a civil context. They act and are equipped as a police force.

But the army mentioned in the news would be the one used to fight wars, with uniform and automatic weapons, not Carabienieri

No, but it does matter who's giving the orders.

The soldiers are basically only for deterrence I guess.

[โ€“] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

problematic

Violent attacks, especially with an axe, not sure I'd call them just "problematic"

[โ€“] lgsp@feddit.it 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

A soldier is trained to deal with enemies with at least an automatic rifle.

Policemen are instead trained to deal with crazies with axes, knives, rods... etc. and possibly neutrilize them without killing them. They should be able to try a negotiation even. What can a soldier with an automatic rifle already in his hand do? Shoot.

It's easy:

  • war, peace keeping -> army
  • public order, criminals -> police
[โ€“] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Right, but that doesn't have much to do about the people being called "problematic" that I was talking about

[โ€“] lgsp@feddit.it 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Ok, I got your point

What I wanted to say, on the other hand, is that for one guy with an axe that ends up in the news, you have 100 guys that may act aggressively and/or violently. And as it is today, doctors and medical personnel has to deal with those too. A soldier would be even less suitable in those cases...

[โ€“] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago

I agree with that. Soldiers aren't best suited for the job. I think it might partially be that people are looking for quick solutions and soldiers seem for many to be quick low-cost solution, even though security guards would seem more obvious. But those you'd have to pay, meanwhile you already got these soldiers, so "might as well use them for something useful".

I get the thinking, but it's not a great idea.