this post was submitted on 08 Aug 2024
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[โ€“] Force_majeure123@aussie.zone 7 points 3 months ago (3 children)

I think tortellini is actually a part of the dumpling family, not the pasta family

[โ€“] Seagoon_@aussie.zone 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

It's not a dumpling. Dumplings are not stuffed pastries or stuffed pasta, dumplings are small balls of dough cooked in stew to be eaten with stew.

We don't called pierogi dumplings either do we?

It's just the co-opting of a word .

Is a bagel bread or is it a dumpling, eh?

What ignorant people call dumplings are mini pies that are boiled.

Tortellini is fancy pasta.

[โ€“] just_kitten@aussie.zone 4 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Words change meaning over time, this is one of them

[โ€“] AJSadauskas@aussie.zone 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

So what about Chinese dumplings then?

[โ€“] Force_majeure123@aussie.zone 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Nothing changed about them, they are still in the dumpling family

[โ€“] Seagoon_@aussie.zone 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I think it's a modern problem. Bao have traditionally been eaten in soup/stew but a restaurant in Shanghai started calling steamed buns dumplings.

Bao means bag , it's a reference to filling, but dumpling is a reference to how it's cooked.

[โ€“] CEOofmyhouse56@aussie.zone 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I thought bao means bun. That's why you only need to say bao otherwise you are saying bun bun.

[โ€“] StudChud@aussie.zone 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I'd say bao bao and blow their minds

Edit: saying "bao bun" is equivalent to saying "naan bread" or "chai tea"; it's basically saying "bread bread" or "tea tea".

Bao means bun in Cantonese, and bao is a Cantonese food.

[โ€“] StudChud@aussie.zone 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

That's the joy of language and language evolution imo. Anyone ever heard of the great vowel shift haha

[โ€“] Thornburywitch@aussie.zone 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Yes. The stuff of dinner table conversation in the family. My mum did her masters degree on Old English and Old Norse. Dad spoke fluent cockney, english and lowland scots depending on context. Tell me about it.

[โ€“] Catfish@aussie.zone 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Naw. Wish I could invite your Dad to dinner.

[โ€“] Thornburywitch@aussie.zone 4 points 3 months ago

More than 20 years too late for that as he passed in 2003. Born in 1911. Still miss him.

[โ€“] Seagoon_@aussie.zone 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[โ€“] StudChud@aussie.zone 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Between 1400 and 1700, English went through a major vowel shift that changed the way words were pronounced. The pronunciation of Middle English long vowels changed into how we pronounce them today/has affected English worldwide, and well as consotant changes (silent letters come from this, knife used have the k pronounced, and this can actually still be heard in German as well. Kneipe (German for pub/bar), for eg, is pronounced with the k).

Example, in Middle English the word "house" was pronounced hu:s "hoos". With the Great Vowel Shift it changed to haสŠs "howse".

[โ€“] Catfish@aussie.zone 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I love Middle English. It can look like gibberish at first, but pretend to be drunk & Scottish 98% of it works. The other words are probably Danish.

[โ€“] StudChud@aussie.zone 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

My favourite pic displaying the evolution. Middle English is still almost parsable, but old english is basically old German haha

Also the change of implication. In middle English, God sets one down in the pasture, King James says God makes one lie in pastures, but Modern has God allows one to lay in the pasture.

And the change of feohland to pasture. I love this stuff so fucking much.

[โ€“] Catfish@aussie.zone 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I love side by side versions like those! (I did send you that book link?) it makes the changes and similarities so obvious ๐Ÿ˜บ language is fun.

[โ€“] StudChud@aussie.zone 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

You did send it to me iirc, I haven't had time to source it but will so after this thread has me on several linguistic rabbit holes haha!

I just checked and it's saved on my wishlist lol

Definitely check out Language Jones on YT, he's a linguist and it's so refreshing to watch someone with such a vast amount of knowledge!

[โ€“] Force_majeure123@aussie.zone 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

That's a pretty American argument...

[โ€“] StudChud@aussie.zone 2 points 3 months ago

Bruh ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ’€

[โ€“] Seagoon_@aussie.zone 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

That's a very American argument. Americans, who use Simplified English, used dictionaries as a political tool in the war of independence and still do

They developed a descriptive dictionary so they can say their usage is just as valid ๐Ÿ™„

but the rest of the world, who use Traditional English, use prescriptive dictionaries so we can have agreed upon meanings and usage.

[โ€“] StudChud@aussie.zone 2 points 3 months ago

I can promise you that words changing meaning over time is not an "American Argument". Nothing to say what you mean by "American" (us, Canada, Argentina?) .

Language has changed all the time, via slang from the poorest, or the slang of the royals and powerful people throughout history.

We don't say *dyeu anymore, to refer to the sun-god of proto-indo-european times; we say "Zeus", "deity", "deva" or "Jupiter" (all come from *dyeu).

So I don't think the Americans had any say in that. Language and the evolution of language has happened endless times throughout history.

Example from Language Jones

https://youtu.be/BFgg-Gy0E2g?si=g4rNnyX7eu1DJx60

[โ€“] Force_majeure123@aussie.zone 2 points 3 months ago

Dumpling is a Chinese word though so I don't understand your argument

[โ€“] MeanElevator@aussie.zone 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Are hot dogs sandwiches then?

I always thought of dumplings as either dough balls, or dough balls stuffed with other things.

[โ€“] RustyRaven@aussie.zone 5 points 3 months ago

If served on a split long roll it is a hot dog. If you cut the roll horizontally it becomes a sub. Serve three cocktail frankfurts crosswise on a round roll and it is a burger. Sliced and served between two slices of bread it the only way it becomes a sandwich. Unless you then toast it and transform it into a toastie, or toast it in a special press and turn it into a jaffle. All completely different meals.

[โ€“] stepchook@mastodon.au 4 points 3 months ago

@MeanElevator @Seagoon_
Bread crumbs wrapped in bread crumbs.
A hot dog is basically meat flavoured bread.

[โ€“] Force_majeure123@aussie.zone 3 points 3 months ago

Pierogis are also in the dumpling family.

Tortellini is dumpling

[โ€“] StudChud@aussie.zone 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

That's a wild hot take, damn. Don't tell the Italians lol

[โ€“] mysticgreg@aussie.zone 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

My wife is of Italian heritage and tortellini is her favourite. She's sharpening her pitchfork as we speak ๐Ÿคฃ

[โ€“] Taleya@aussie.zone 5 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Taunt with tomato sauce, you only live once

[โ€“] mysticgreg@aussie.zone 4 points 3 months ago

I, too, like to live dangerously!

[โ€“] Seagoon_@aussie.zone 4 points 3 months ago

Tomato sauce? Do you mean marina sauce? ๐Ÿ˜‰

[โ€“] StudChud@aussie.zone 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[โ€“] mysticgreg@aussie.zone 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Mention putting cream in carbonara to them, stand back, and watch them (rightly) explode :D

[โ€“] StudChud@aussie.zone 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm just reminded of that clip from the UK talk show with the chef making a dish, and the host says it tastes like British carbonara. He basically implodes ๐Ÿ˜‚

[โ€“] Force_majeure123@aussie.zone 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

and if my mother had wheels, she'd be a bike!

[โ€“] StudChud@aussie.zone 3 points 3 months ago

๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚ yessssss

[โ€“] Duenan@aussie.zone 2 points 3 months ago

Maybe technically but they're still delicious!