this post was submitted on 09 Jul 2024
419 points (99.8% liked)

196

16591 readers
2455 users here now

Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.

Rule: You must post before you leave.

^other^ ^rules^

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] lorty@lemmy.ml 82 points 4 months ago (5 children)

Crazy take: people get to choose if they have children.

[–] ArmokGoB@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 4 months ago

I wish I got to choose if my parents had children.

[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 12 points 4 months ago

... without being judged for it, I hope?

[–] Wes4Humanity@lemm.ee 8 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Yes... But should they get that choice?

If I could wave a magic wand, I'd make it so every 12 year old that could make sperm (trans, cis, whatever) gets a reversible vasectomy automatically. Then, if/when they ever want and plan for starting a family, they can take the class on childhood development and how to be a good parent who raises not shitty humans. If they pass, great! They get to undo the vasectomy and try for a family. If not, oh well, no one wanted to have to support your shitty kids in the first place.

I have no idea how something like this could ever actually be implemented in a fair way... Hense the need for the magic wand

[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 41 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

How about we fix the fucking society, so raising children isn't so fucking volatile instead of thinking up some wand of eugenics +2?

[–] Wes4Humanity@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Well, yeah, that would be the best way to go... I'd still think people should have to pass a class before they're allowed to be responsible for another human beings entire life

[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 12 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I don't trust state insitutions enough for that not to turnsinto yet another way to screw over the poor.

[–] Wes4Humanity@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago

Certainly not as long as the corporations are in control of the government

[–] Umbrias@beehaw.org 21 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Ah, genocidal eugenics, there you are. How I didn't miss you.

[–] Wes4Humanity@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Neither of those words apply here.

[–] Umbrias@beehaw.org 9 points 4 months ago (1 children)
[–] Wes4Humanity@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Nah... Not sure what you think those words mean, but no one's talking about genetics or the eradication of a race of people.

[–] Umbrias@beehaw.org 4 points 4 months ago

Ah of course, my mistake.

Eugenics certainly couldn't be checks notes deciding who can have kids, and humans arent checks notes people.

Absolutely ridiculous. Imagine actually being pro genocide.

[–] TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Yes. Ultimately, the reason we should let people choose isn't to prevent people who would be bad parents from becoming parents. That's an issue that couldn't be solved directly, but could be indirectly addressed by providing comprehensive sex ed. The real reason we should let people choose is so people aren't forced to do or not do something they don't or do want. People may choose the wrong option for themselves and regret it, but outside forces aren't going to know what they want better than they will.

Magical thought experiments can often mislead, as ethics cannot exist outside of our uncertain, unmagical reality.

[–] Wes4Humanity@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

But in this case the "wrong option" means a human being will suffer terribly (assuming we're talking about parents who wouldn't pass the test)... Do we not ethically owe it to children/humanity to take some level of precautions against allowing them to grow up in hell?

[–] TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago

We do owe them protection, but not only do we owe ourselves reproductive rights, there are other ways to protect those children. We can give people the knowledge and resources to be better parents while taking kids away from those that still suck. How many parents largely suck because of poverty? How many never got the chance to learn how to parent or what the experience will be like?

[–] belated_frog_pants@beehaw.org 8 points 4 months ago

I wish they did but the governments are intent on taking that choice away

[–] BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 4 months ago

Of course. You can, and it’s your right to do so. But that doesn’t mean it’s ethical.