this post was submitted on 30 Jun 2024
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Well that was exciting at the end. The only thing missing are the long and tedious argument chains that would have been found on reddit with everybody arguing whose fault is it.
Do you people agree with Jolyon that Max going off the track to keep the position should have been a pen. The way I see it, Lando clearly pushes him off after the divebomb
Lando was ahead at the apex, Max should have backed out or when going through the grass given the position to Lando. That's a pretty straight forward case IMO. However Lando did provoke him into that error for sure
I don't think it's that straight forward. Norris dove so deep he almost went off track himself. He didn't leave Verstappen space so Verstappen had to go off track. Implying Norris had the right for the position sets a dangerous precedent where you can simply divebomb deep into the corner, cut off the entire corner and the person you want to pass has to give the position to you.
You're allowed to almost go off the track.
That was to point out that he didn't leave room for Verstappen. If Norris is already almost off the track, where is Verstappen supposed to go? Magically teleport through Norris?
Brake, wait for the road to be clear. Not overtake off the track.
But if Max wanted to overtake because he was quicker out of the corner? Where would he go?
Every driver has a few choices. Brake and wait, go off the track, or collide. You're not allowed to overtake off track, and you shouldn't cause a collision, so what's left?
But that is not for Max to decide. The stewards could have given Lando a penalty for that. But Max definitely should have given the position to Lando IMO.
On paper I completely agree, Max should've given the position back. But in reality I think we both know why he didn't and why I think it was fair game. You even allude to the reason.
Just as they could have punished Lando for it they also could have punished Verstappen for not letting Lando pass. The stewards are wildly inconsistent and if I was a racer I wouldn't put my GP win in the hands of the stewards. Unless I'm clearly in the wrong the most logical course of action is to do what's best for me at that moment and then argue with the stewards later. Another example of stewards being inconsistent is the fact that Verstappen didn't get punished for taking the position back. He absolutely should've gotten punished for it, but he didn't. The stewards play loose with rules so drivers must also play loose with the rules if they want to win.
Imagine if Verstappen had given that position to Norris and then stewards had done nothing to punish Norris. People would have called Verstappen a sucker for giving up the position because why would you willingly give up your position in such a gray area? Verstappen is driving to win and that means he's not going to give up a position just so he could be "in the right". Being in the right doesn't mean you get to win. The winners mindset is that if you can be in the right and win then that's great, but if can't achieve that you'd much rather be in the wrong and win than be in the right and not win. That doesn't apply only to Verstappen, Norris would also be just as fine being in the wrong and winning. Same with a lot of other drivers.
2021 set that precedent, that was Max's signature move. Brake late to get ahead on the inside, go wide, and push your opponent off the track.
Max set the precedent that you can do such a divebomb not that you couldn't retake off track. You're arguing to make the move even stronger by disallowing retaking off track.
This was only because he broke so late that he did not make the apex and almost did not make the corner, certainly left no space for max. If that is how things will be, we will see max divebombing and going into people from now on because like Alonso he too takes advantage of dubious stewarding.
I donβt think it should be a penalty if you push someone off the track. But in this case I am not too sure.
Why though clearly forced of track and he was well ahead going into the braking zone. Can't see why he should be penalized for avoiding contact
Donβt get me wrong, I donβt think it should have been penalty, but the previous laps were pretty hard defending from Verstappen and Norris was already complaining (imo way too much) so I figured it was the last straw and heβd have to give the position back.
Norris' complains about moving under braking were fine because max was doing that to a degree but his complains that max pushed him off when he outbroke himself and ended up going off were pretty pathetic. Neither driver came out looking good from that fight
I can't figure out the "rules" for that situation, as they seem very fluid depending on the corner and the outcome.
I wouldn't have thought Lewis should have given the position back to Sainz, but l also watched Max barge Charles off there years ago with no penalty.
While Max was clearly at fault for the collision, Lando was optimistic on a few of those attempts, my personal favorites being "He moved under braking!" Where max looked like he took a pretty normal line through the turn, and "He pushed me off!" When Lando locked up and blew through the corner.
I can't stand either one of them, so it was highly entertaining.
The line slightly different than his normal but nothing over the edge. I was shocked when palmer squarely claimed that Verstappen was the only one over the line and that Lando was never over it during the whole fight.
Max moved under braking multiple times, passed off track, ran into Norris not once but twice in the same corner, left the track maintaining his position, pushed Norris off track on the straight after the collision, then weaved and blocked Norris on the racing line on the following corner after it was clear he had a puncture.
Norris was overly optimistic going into a corner once and gave the position back.
But yeah, let's go ahead and treat both of their behaviors as the same... /sarcasm