this post was submitted on 04 May 2024
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And they can't do that with a resume? Most things seem to be able to do that automatically these days (fill out forms with info from a resume that is); just the not damned employer.
Because filling out the data places it in identified fields that you can compile into a single table and sort. You’d have to examine each resume individually.
I mean, HR is being paid. They should be going through the resume and compiling the data themselves.
Instead they require the applicants to do it for free, despite the fact the applicants are probably having to do it dozens of times trying to apply for multiple jobs.
No reading every resume is an incredibly stupid way to spend time, even for HR workers (they are somewhat educated aka not cheap).
It would make sense for every joblisting to use the same format and you just filling it all out once in said format and connecting to any company / job listing you'ld want to apply to. That's basically what linkedin does to some extent. That, but without the social network bullshit, would be pretty cool.
I think you underestimate how many people apply for jobs and how few people are in HR lol.
You'd make a lot of money if you were able to make a site that harvested one from the other.
I’m not even a fan of HR departments and even I recognize there’s more to their job than sorting through every resume they get every day.
Oh no... DOING YOUR JOB!
Why not make the job easier?
If your idea to make the job easier (for you) is to make it more than double the work for everyone else, then the company supporting this move deserves to go under.
Why should an applicant do everything twice just so some unknown wage slave they likely won't even meet have an easier day?
This isn't making your job easier, it's just making everyone else do it for you. That's not the same thing. Do your job and stop taking shortcuts at everyone else's expense.
Boo freaking ho. If you’re too lazy to copy and paste some basic information into an online form, I don’t want to hire you anyway. Also discourages people from trying to apply for hundreds or thousands of jobs they are not even qualified for.
The fact is I’m an engineer, not an HR employee. I have a job other than reviewing resumes. And the absolutely will meet me if they meet the requirements. I’ll interview them. If they don’t, they are wasting both our time.
Not wanting to do double the work for no tangible benefit is not being lazy.
Being slowed down in applying for multiple positions and being upset about it is not being lazy.
If your company is small enough not to have an HR department then they're clearly small enough to review resumes. Or just stop asking for them if everything you wanna know has to be spelled out in the exact right order for you to comprehend it.
The tangible benefit is getting the job. Sorry, I see this BS, I’m not even bringing you in for the interview.
And yes, we have an HR department. I want to pick the people we work with, not just let people that don’t know what a civil engineer does hire.
There is a positive to there being a treshold to applying for a job. It lowers the amount of applicants that will 100% not fit the job description, while making it more possible for HR/management to actually sift through every applicant, increasing the chances you'll get hired if you do put in the effort and if you do meet the requirements. Look at it as an overcomplicated catpcha. They're not just trying to test if you're a human, they're trying to test if you are human & actually are really interested in this job & actually do think you meet the requirements (or equivalent, causing you to put in the effort). It doesn't make much sense for very low skilled low wage jobs, but it does for higher and/or very specifically skilled jobs.
This is true, but everyone's problem is specifically the "overcomplicated" part. I can see a better vetting process being needed for higher skill jobs, but really just testing if they're a living breathing person and able to repeat things is kinda pathetic. But if this is now how a hiring department/manager works these days, then it seems like asking for a resume is silly. It would obviously be most "convenient" to just be able to mass apply easily, so I can see the argument for this process. It seems that most of the complaints you typically hear about though (maybe this is just personal bias and anecdotal experience) are related to low skilled applications. Minimum wage/not far above minimum wage jobs this is crazy overkill. It just feels like a huge waste of time.
It becomes more and more worth it the better the job gets.
yeah the resume is the silly part, it's a remnant from the past. Somehow for flipping burgers they are by doing this checking wether you can neatly summarize you're academic history and your skillset, it's completely pointless. And for high skilled or specific jobs, you're better off asking some in the workfield questions anyhow, instead of the "why don't you decide what you want to tell us"-resume.
They could absolutely attempt to parse the resumes, then ask you to verify the information instead of just having you enter it all again manually, but that would probably cost slightly more.
I don't think HR does it by hand, they do a query for specific degree and years of experience based on what's entered into the form. Then they take the results and send those resumes to the manager. They aren't going to read through hundreds or thousands of resumes trying to find the key items.
It's an automated process.
I don't know what to tell you - I just know that I've never known an HR organization that used something like that. All the corporate websites I've ever seen have you fill out a form an attach your resume. Maybe that's changing, but not where I am.
I know they never use it either... That's the problem. 🤦♂️
There are ways to make this bullshit non-existent and the only people not using it are the actual people doing the hiring.
A lot of those systems suck, AI might have improved in the last few years since I got out of HR so maybe it's not like that any more but they always crazy inaccurate. We use to see brick layers making it through the auto screens for finance roles when we just used the software. When the software makes that crazy of a mistake then HR can't see people actually qualified for the roles their recruiting.
Honestly I wish there was a standard resume format. It would make it easier for the software and for the humans rather than everyone flexing their creativity on resume formatting.
Yet these companies have the audacity to complain that they can’t find any qualified applicants. It would be funny if it wasn’t so fucking sad.
I'm not sure what your problem with it is. The process seems to work reasonably well on my end. I'm not sure why you think the form is such a burden.
See this is why nothing improves and why the process remains to be a shit show.
On your end everything seems fine. To everyone on the other end it’s a complete failure.
If someone is looking for a job they are going through this process 20-30 times. Every fucking time it’s filling out some long form repeating all the same crap that’s in your resume.
Like I get it. You do this to make your life easier. But you do it at the expense of everyone else and in the end you glazed over all the good talent because you didn’t even know it was there since the people looking at this stuff don’t know the first thing about the role they are hiring.
The problem is on your end. Not the applicants. The really good applicants aren’t even applicants because they see this shit and NOPE out since there are plenty of good companies that don’t pull this crap.
Not sure why you think I have trouble getting good talent.
This doesn't make my life easier. I still get a mess of resumes that I have to read through and rank, then go through the interview process. It's a lot of work. But I do get good results generally.
Because all of the big corporations out there including Lockheed Martin write articles complaining about how they struggle to find qualified applicants.
The struggle i have is that a giant percentage of applicants want fully remote work, which I respect, but a lot of our work requires being hands on with hardware, so at best we're hybrid. Oh, and it's of course harder when I'm looking for something very specific. If I need someone with ten years of real time control software experience who has a software degree and hands on hardware experience, that's for sure harder. The reason so many companies are having a harder time is that unemployment is low but salaries haven't caught up. It's not that no one wants to fill out the application form.
I understand but keep in mind they’ve been saying this long before Covid. Long before there were labor issues or expectations around remote work.
I remember reading lots of articles about this back in 2015-2016. I’m sure it’s worse now but it was never really great to begin with.
The issue really isn’t the application form as much as it is that the folks doing the hiring and interviewing.
I can’t tell you how many interviews I’ve been in where the interviewer was clearly not technical but asked questions around your technical background. They don’t know the right answers from the wrong answers. These are KIDS asking tech questions to seniors. So even if your answer is right you’ll still be marked wrong because the answer wasn’t equal to what was on their paper.
It’s infuriating.
That's just crazy town, I can't imagine doing that. I manage software engineers, and I did real time control software for a couple decades before I became a manager. Here's roughly my process:
Then that's, no other interviews in the vast majority of cases; I get feedback from the team and then make my best call. If none are good fits, I'll repeat the whole process.
How you explained it I would say you’re doing it right. You truly are the exception. My apologies.
Unfortunately most of what I see in the corporate world is the opposite of that. Not every company is this way. The company I am working for today follows the same pattern that you utilize. With that said I got hired through a reference which is how it always goes here for hiring.
It seems the companies that I see this the most with are the ones spamming indeed and similar job posting sites. They aren’t very good at it which I guess is why they end up using these sites to begin with.
There seem to be more and more people who are just bad at their jobs these days. Part of that, from my vantage point, is companies expecting ever-increasing productivity with ever-decreasing resources.
In my early management days, when I wanted to hire someone, an HR person would come and meet with me to go ever exactly what I was looking for, what was critical, what was nice to have, etc. They'd post the position, but they'd also attend career fairs, connect with other agencies, etc. Then they would read through all the resumes and give me what they thought were the top candidates. And they didn't do a bad job of it. For the ones that I didn't like, they'd ask me to explain why so that they could get better.
Now it's more and more self-service. Same with IT, and other areas too.
At what point do you think things changed?
It feels like ever since 2008 companies have been in a slow grind to cut costs. It truly feels like the economy is going down the tubes and this is all just a sign of the current times.
Things definitely accelerated since Covid.
It's been a lot longer than that. Here, take a look at this graph comparing productivity to average worker salary. They were completely in sync up through the 70s, then in the 80s worker salary flattened while productivity kept on the same increasing rate. 1981 was when Reagan took office and we started with "trickle down economics." Tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations that was supposed to "trickle down" to the worker. Conservatives still tout it today, but it's never done anything other than make rich people richer and screw the economy.
The problem is that those two lines are continuing on their respective paths, and businesses are expected to grow their productivity at that rate while keeping costs (including salaries) down. So we get squeezed to do more and more with less and less.