this post was submitted on 05 Mar 2024
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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

What?

We make about 150,000 vehicles a month in America...

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DAUPSA

We sell about 150,000,000

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TOTALSA

If Biden if fucking over every other American to "protect" a few thousands jobs....

That's a bad choice.

For damn near everyone except the executives of companies who make most of their vehicles in Mexico anyways.

Like, if Biden is doing this to protect jobs, it's protecting jobs that went to Mexico decades ago.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/889529/mexico-automotive-production-volume/

[–] Not_mikey@slrpnk.net 16 points 8 months ago (1 children)

This isn't a few thousand jobs, auto manufacturing in the u.s. employs millions and millions more work in services or industries dependent on it.

Also union auto jobs keep wages high for other unskilled labor as it puts upward pressure on employers as they compete for workers, eg. Amazon may have to increase wages to compete with a unionized auto plant that got a raise with the recent negotiation, otherwise people might choose to work there. If that auto plant goes under though, or moves over to China, then there's a surplus of workers who need a job so amazon can lower wages cause they know they're desperate, this is how the middle class collapses.

Globalization encourages a race to the bottom for wages which hurts workers. That's why free trade deals like NAFTA/USMCA will have minimum wages put on auto manufacturing, and why it's better for cars to be manufactured in Mexico then in China, where no such minimum wage exists. Chinese cars aren't cheaper because their manufacturers are more efficient, its because their workers are more exploited.

We do need to transition away from gas cars, ideally to public transit, but absent that we can encourage EV adoption with subsidies and discourage gas car purchases with taxes without destroying the middle class.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world -4 points 8 months ago (3 children)

This isn’t a few thousand jobs, auto manufacturing in the u.s. employs millions and millions more work in services or industries dependent on it.

So why dont we have tarrifs on the ones that are produced in Mexico too?

That's the problem with "moderates" you can't argue with consistent logic.

You have to fliflop back and forth and sometimes argue the exact opposite.

If this is to protect US jobs, and that's a good thing, why don't every foreign country have tariffs? Why let American corporations send the jobs to Mexico?

[–] RupeThereItIs@lemmy.world 15 points 8 months ago (1 children)

So why dont we have tarrifs on the ones that are produced in Mexico too?

Mexico is not China.

It is in our best interest to have a stable and economically improving neighbor on our southern border.

Your all or nothing / black or white view of the world is extremely childish & naive. Simple solutions to complex problems are just how politicians manipulate those who don't want to think to hard. Stop pretending that global trade policy is a simple solution arena & try thinking a little harder.

[–] IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 15 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Have a look at that NAFTA replacement agreement. There's provisions in there specifically to put upwards pressure on Mexican wages.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world -5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Wow, can we get anything like that for American auto workers?

[–] IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 10 points 8 months ago

We have that. They're called unions. Of course, that's also at risk, since half the population seems OK with breaking union power.

[–] Not_mikey@slrpnk.net 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Did you read my full comment or just the first sentence, cause I did go on to explain why I think manufacturing in Mexico is better. Ideally cars would be manufactured in the u.s. but I'm not going to let the good be the enemy of the great.

Also along with the minimum wage as part of the USMCA there is also better union provisions for Mexico in it as well which allows the UAW to try and organize Mexican auto workers with independent unions to raise wages.

https://www.wardsauto.com/industry-news/uaw-reaching-across-border-support-mexican-auto-workers

You can't do that in China because there's only the CCP associated state run unions with little negotiation power by the workers to raise there wages.

[–] IamSparticles@lemmy.zip 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Just a small correction: The sales numbers are 15 million, not 150 million.

[–] Cort@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

2nd correction: that 15 million number is for ALL car sales the number for NEW car sales is less than 1.5 million.

[–] IamSparticles@lemmy.zip 1 points 8 months ago

Thanks. I thought that still seemed really high.

[–] Trainguyrom@reddthat.com 0 points 8 months ago

Like, if Biden is doing this to protect jobs, it’s protecting jobs that went to Mexico decades ago.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics indicates about 1 million people in automotive manufacturing (including parts manufacturing) and 2 more million in sales (including auto parts sales, 1.5 million excluding sales) that's a lot of people concentrated in rust belt swing states who would see job instability by foreign vehicles entering the market at race-to-the-bottom prices and quality.

https://www.bls.gov/iag/tgs/iagauto.htm#iag31cesnsaemp.f.p

If you expand the scope to all manufacturing jobs (because auto manufacturing doesn't exist in a vacuum and actions taken to affect the auto industry will also have some effect to most if not all manufacturing industries) that grows to about 13 million jobs

On an unrelated note, they also indicate about 200,000 unfilled job openings in manufacturing every month indicating the industry has a desire to grow but lacks the humanpower to do so.

https://www.bls.gov/iag/tgs/iag31-33.htm