502
John Eastman Comes Clean: Hell Yes We Were Trying to Overthrow the Government
(talkingpointsmemo.com)
this post was submitted on 06 Aug 2023
502 points (96.5% liked)
politics
19102 readers
3293 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Declaration of Independence is not part of our Constitution, which prohibits attempts to overthrow the government.
The Declaration of Independence is a document that explains the political decision to break from England. That's it.
And July 4th is not the nation's birthday. It's simply the day the colonists said fuck you to England.
v1 of USA: 1774 with Continental Association v2: 1777 with Articles of Confederation v3: 1787 with Constitution
*Some colonists. Probably not an important distinction, but we should remember history as people loosely coming together instead of always together in a solid decision that way we can understand things like January 6th or the war on Iraq better. In history we have followed our leaders even into bad situations. Saying fuck you to England was a good choice though. 😁
Let's take it further. Why is history mostly about politics and warfare? As tho natural history is less important...
This is a very interesting topic. I actually studied and wrote about it in the 3 months that I was at Harvard before I dropped out. 🤣
Essentially, all of history was taught as it was written from the Kings or rulers. So all of history starts with king blah blah blah and this is what happened. That is how history was recorded through most of US presidents as well. " This is what Lincoln did" is how we learned it in high school.
Only in the past 20 or so years (somebody correct me) have the original documents of citizens and people's been meta analyzed in a way that we can see history from other (non-white, non-ruler) perspectives.
This, I think, runs right next to CRT and why the right wing and is so concerned about controlling the history books and libraries right now. I think their think tanks are trying to prevent a more accurate version of history from being accepted. I'm not 100% sure about this loose connection though.
Just an accusation from a random guy on the internet.
So, Eastman and the Declaration of Independence and the linked article are on the same page as far as this: There is no "prohibit." A lot of the world runs on prison rules; more so than may be immediately apparent if you live in a well-ordered first world society. You can try to overthrow the government if you want, because that's just the reality: You have hands and feet, maybe you have weapons; it's not like an AI safety mechanism will kick in "FORBIDDEN, I MUST NOT." You can roll yourself down the road and do whatever you want to do.
But, don't get all surprised if the government reacts in a certain way.
This is a certain mindset that people can get themselves into when they take for granted systems of justice that protect them: They are allowed to trample all over the system and the rights of other people because of some logic they concocted. But the instant someone starts doing something to them, they forget all about how it's prison rules, and start screaming about how what the other person is doing is not allowed. Hanging Mike Pence is fine. Shooting Ashleigh Babbitt was a shocking breach of these civilized rules you are supposed to be following. Et cetera. It's like those people who fight with the police and then get super loud about how their handcuffs are too tight and they need a drink of water. Like, dude, you were the one that opted out.
Yes, John Eastman should get due process. The handcuffs should be a reasonable tightness; that's an important part of our system even when the suspect tried to run over a state trooper five minutes ago. But also, we should remember everything he had to say about prison rules, if at some point in the future he has something to say about how unfair it all is.
And even if we grant his argument, what "abuses" is he claiming are intolerable?
That if a person with a penis wants to be called a woman, or a person with a vagina wants to be called a man, or a person with either set of genitals wants to be called neither, they should be allowed to?
That everyone in this country deserves to be treated fairly?
That your choice of religious belief doesn't give you the right to refuse service to others, or grant you some higher station?
That in the time of the greatest wealth disparity in the history of the world, maybe the wealthy shouldn't have that much money?
That nobody asked to be born, therefore nobody should have to earn their living?
That if the other political party has more votes than you, you don't get to have control of the government?
That if making it easier to vote means your party gets fewer votes, your party shouldn't exist?
That in the time of the highest worker productivity in US history, people should have more leisure time?
That all education ought to be government funded, because the ROI for an educated populace is incalculable compared to bankrupting entire generations?
So tell us John, what was so "intolerable" you decided to commit sedition?