915
House Speaker Mike Johnson says God will punish “depraved” U.S. because more teens identify as LGBTQ+
(www.lgbtqnation.com)
this post was submitted on 06 Dec 2023
915 points (97.1% liked)
News
23367 readers
3319 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Sorry but I subscribe to the idea that the two books were of the same authors and were divided up later, like Samuel.
I don't need a translation to read it in the original. I made the effort to learn the biblical languages and yes I can tell you 100% with zero doubt that the words used refer to an adult male and another adult male. The whole plural tense thing means nothing. Old Hebrew had a word for boy and the authors choose not to use. There is a reason why no one fluent in Hebrew makes that argument and instead tries to use the context argument, like Dan did. There is no context that makes it not horrific. The text requires you to murder men who had consensual gay sex. The very word used in that passage is used only to describe ADULTS with a cock in every other single instance in the OT. From Adam onward.
I think the popular core list of 7 letters are authentic but that doesn't mean the 6 forgeries have nothing Paul said.
Do you have any academic sources that posit Leviticus and Deuteronomy were written by the same authors? That’s a unique claim, they have clearly different priorities and values. The only folks I’ve heard claim they were authored by the same people are those that believe they were all written by Moses, which is certainly not the academic viewpoint.
I have not mentioned “boys” at all. I think you are projecting other arguments you’ve heard on to me, and not addressing my claim. I am claiming that in the context of the Bronze Age Middle East, the concept of consensual gay sex between adult men was not something that would be on the mind of the priestly folks tasked with compiling ritual law. The situation that they would have actually encountered or heard of would be assault.
The forged letters definitely have elements of what Paul said - if I wanted to forge a new Harry Potter book plagiarizing and rewriting some of the old books would be a good strategy. They also have changes that were clearly used to advocate theological positions that Paul would have opposed - most of the interesting stuff is related to soteriology though.
I don't know you were a mind reader with access to a time machine. Now, what does the text say? In literal Hebrew.
I am not studied enough in Hebrew to go into arguments concerning מִשְׁכְּבֵי אִשָּׁה, but considering it is a phrase that does not show up elsewhere in the Bible or contemporary Hebrew texts, I think reading it as unambiguously referring to consensual sex between men is the mind reading. Just like ἀρσενοκοίτης, we are trying to parse words with complicated meanings seated in a very specific cultural context.
אִשָּׁה means women, adult female. מִשְׁכְּבֵי means fucking. Both words are everywhere in that same chapter. Also if you want to be fully pedantic you don't even need the accent marks for both. Why didn't you include the entire sentence?
Here https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9921/jewish/Chapter-20.htm
The only word you can argue with is זָכָר֙ which means male not just adult male. This is not a limiting term this is a broad term, this means eunchs and this means guys from other tribes, or spirits in the form of human males. There was a word for boy (יֶלֶד) which is not used, a word for slave (עֶבֶד) also not used, and a word for male angels also not used. The authors deliberately choose a word that would cover all human form males and combined with the rules against punish of a rape victim would result in only consensual gay male sex being banned.
Hebrew really isn't that hard. 25 letters, about 100 roots, heavy dependence on prefixes and suffixes. It took a fair amount of self-study before I got to the point where I could get through the Book of Job word for word. If a person as bad as languages as me can do it I am sure you can.
The hard part is when you get to a word that is used like once and you see these really long debates online about what it means, but for these basic words like male, sex, boy, and slave they are all over.