this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2023
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[–] SirToxicAvenger@lemm.ee 62 points 1 year ago (41 children)

A senior member of Hamas has hailed the systematic slaughter of civilians in Israel

When asked whether this meant the complete annihilation of Israel, Hamas replied: “Yes, of course.”

who still thinks hamas are the good guys?

[–] fer0n@lemm.ee 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I made the mistake of commenting on this post where people clearly think that the Hamas are the good guys and have every right to do what they do. Apologies for linking to it.

[–] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Only tankies. Literally no one out here with a braincell is defending Hamas.

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[–] Shardikprime@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Like the 90% of lemmy are terrorists apologizers at this point

[–] snek@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

More like they get accused of doing so even though their comment didn't mention Hamas and they were talking about Palestinian rights, and somewhere someone pops up telling them they sympathize with Hamas.

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[–] Excrubulent@slrpnk.net 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (11 children)

Who still thinks any state is the good guys? Hamas and Israel are both enemies of the people.

The only way to cut through the propagandistic lies of these groups is to point out that neither truly represents the people they say they do.

[–] Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I mean, Hamas took power by killing Palestinian civilians. They don’t represent anyone and they openly say they will martyr civilians.

The Palestinian National Authority (Fatah) was the democratically elected government of Palestine before 2007. Hamas staged a coup and executed Fatah officials, which is why Gaza and the West Bank are separate entities today.

Hamas is as much a state as Al-Qaeda. They’re a terrorist group that seized power by way of murder and have openly declared they intend to use their citizens as shields and martyrs.

They’re not a state. They’re a terror cell that deserves to be eliminated. Unfortunately their own admitted tactics of using civilians as shields means that civilians will be killed.

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[–] Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

Difference is, Israel isn't meant to represent palestinian people, Hamas is. And they are doing a great job of it, if their job is getting civilians killed.

Edit: Just think about the massive protests against Netanyahu earlier in the year. Do those show how in tune the Israeli government and people are? No. But the very fact they could protest mostly peacefully differentiates Israel's treatment of its population from all of its neighbours.

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[–] frequenttimetraveler@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is an 100 year conflict, all the good guys are dead.

Why do people feel this need to be good/bad. Everybody knows by now how complex is the middle east

[–] Shardikprime@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Literally supporting terrorists and apologize for them is bad

you shouldn't do that then

[–] Akasazh@feddit.nl 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Tactically their October 7 attack was incredibly silly, honestly what did they think would happen?

They gave Netanyahu, who was finally fumbling at the reigns after almost thirty years aan excuse to execute his wet dreams and all of Israel uniting behind him.

I see no way how they could have thought the attack would benefit their cause.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

To answer the question, what they think would happen: Their October 7th attacked achieved everything they wanted.

KSA and Israel we're coming to an understanding and treaty, that was against the interests of Iran who is in a power struggle with the KSA.

After their attack, it is now politically impossible for the KSA and Israel to have a treaty. That alone justifies this entire conflict from their power politics perspective

They never had any hope of inflicting damage on the Israeli government. They clearly don't care about their own civilian casualties. In fact The worst the reprisals the better for their recruitment and funding efforts.

Probably not directly related to the rationale for their attack, but it got them some ancillary support, it removed Russia's aggression from the news media cycle. Which probably got them some favor in those circles.

From a media perspective, this has been a massive Boone for their campaign. They more or less had disappeared from international headlines for the last 10 years. Now everybody is talking about the genocide, and the ethnic cleansing. They're going to pay very dearly for it, but that's more media attention than they've had for a decade.

[–] Akasazh@feddit.nl 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ok yes I can follow that. The cynical thing is that in none of the reasons the Palestinian people are central. Those are victimized by both the Israelis and Hamas, following this rationale.

An extra cynical level is that the wished of the extreme right Israelis and Hamas are the same. To keep this war going indefinitely, not matter the cost of human life.

In what kind of setting would this be proposed? 'listen we might invite genocidal terror on our own people, but Russia needs some radio silence and we crave media attention' and everyone involved going like 'that's absolutely worth it brother'.

Maybe I'm too naive, I cannot see the tactical gain in that perspective. Thanks though, for good counter points. It helps me trying to make some kind of sense of this.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's straight Machiavelli politics.

I highly recommend you read, or listen to, The Prince by Machiavelli. It's a very short read, but helps you get in the right frame of mind for this type of politicking

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1232/1232-h/1232-h.htm

[–] Akasazh@feddit.nl 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah I know Machiavelli, I don't remember suicidal tactics, though, and certainly not playing according to ones worst enemies playbook.

But mass media wasn't around in the Renaissance..

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The whole philosophy is how to get the outcomes you want, any means are justified.

Saying person X is playing into person Ys playbook is making huge assumptions about their goals.

We can only infer and guess as to the organizational goals at play. We can line up the incentives for their actions, as I did two posts up, and say their behavior is consistent with these incentives.

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[–] xc2215x@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

They most certainly are not.

[–] Zippit@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Piece of shit, pouring oil onto fire while the civilians are getting slaughtered at this point on both sides. If there is hell, this one should burn.

Edit: I've never seen anyone defend Hamas, only civilian Palestinians. Just to make that clear distinction.

[–] Shardikprime@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Bro you merely have to look at this thread and the weekly world news/news threads to see leftists terrorist apologizers

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[–] alaphic@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Antisemitic people, if I had to make a guess

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