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Civilian deaths are indefensible, whether done by Hamas or Israel | Rajan Menon
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2023
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That's probably the norm. Finland, the posterboy of peace, started its independence with a civil war and continued by joining the Nazis in WW2 against Soviet Union.
Seems to me that there are two kinds of nations on this planet: dead ones and those that were at some point based on violence.