this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
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Wiki - The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually ceased or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly self-contradictory idea that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance.

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[–] CorruptBuddha@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

From what I've seen people use this as an argument for censorship. Personally I believe in proportional responses.

[–] LemmysMum@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This assumes that censorship is inherently bad. Censorship against speech regarding the government should be protected. However it's perfectly legitimate to censor harmful ideas, and many countries censor hate speech. We censor people's ability to physically and emotionally harm others. We censor threats. Censorship isn't inherently bad, and is already used functionally everywhere, just ask ChatGPT.

I do however think censorship can be dangerous. I think the censorship we see in public forums (including lemmy) already treads on the toes of legitimate intellectual conversation of objective views on hate speech and offensive language. Tone policing is incredibly intellectually disingenuous, but is widespread because feelings trump literacy. I think the censorship of individual words is supremely dangerous because it also bans or limits the conversation around those words, their usage, etymology, and understanding their use. Comprehension of offensive things is just as valuable as understanding anything else, if not more so should you wish to fight them, but censorship of offensive things without context destroys the capacity for understanding to permeate the social consciousness.

[–] mwguy@infosec.pub 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

However it's perfectly legitimate to censor harmful ideas,

What is an isn't a harmful idea changes drastically between generations. This would have been used to censor information about homosexuality before 1995 or so. "Harmful" as modernly defined is a subjective standard.

[–] LemmysMum@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (51 children)

No it's not. Harm has a definition.

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[–] CorruptBuddha@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This assumes that censorship is inherently bad.

I do consider suppressing the opinions and expressions of others as inherently bad, and I especially hate the idea that people think they have the authority to restrict what others learn about.

[–] LemmysMum@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (11 children)

I do consider suppressing the opinions and expressions of others as inherently bad

Then go support your local Nazi's right to their fair say. Or maybe you want to rethink that.

There's a reason I clarified that censorship of words and concepts for education is dangerous, censoring people using those concepts to cause harm is not.

Or did you stop reading after the first sentence?

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[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] CorruptBuddha@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

To what end? What are you looking to learn?

[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Understand.

You argue that the principle of the paradox of tolerance can be subverted to push censorship.

Can you elaborate on that, please?

Why? How? In what fashion? In what way does it concern you?

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