this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
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[–] sun_is_ra@sh.itjust.works 79 points 1 year ago (6 children)

So they will kill all people in Gaza?

[–] nocturne213@lemm.ee 77 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I always thought that is what Israel wanted anyway.

[–] roo@lemmy.one 45 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So, it's an unattended concentration camp, and they hope everyone dies there.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 72 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Has been for decades...

It's over 2 million in like 140 sq miles...

They don't have their own police, don't get to vote (Israel won't let them have an election), aren't in control of their own utilities, don't have freedom of movement, and get treated as subhuman.

And Israel wants everyone to believe there's no reason for Palestinians to hate Israel's government.

Put people in those conditions and refuse to treat them as humans, and some of them are going to stop acting like humans. It's basically sociology and would happen to any population in those conditions

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Hamas is who does not allow further elections in Gaza.

Following the Fatah–Hamas conflict that started in 2006, Hamas formed a government ruling the Gaza Strip without elections. Gazan Prime Minister Haniyye announced in September 2012 the formation of a second Hamas government, also without elections.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Palestine

[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago

If history's taught us anything, it's that the good guys always indiscriminately target civilians!

[–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, killing some and hope the rest will try to flee to Egypt at which point Gaza is free for the taking.

Or well, maybe, they hope that in desperation people will try to rush the blockade, at which point they just kill them. Hamas awful actions have given Israel plenty of ammunition to keep everyone else on the world stage away for a while, no matter what they do now.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Hamas awful actions

Didn't happen in a vacuum...

There's reasons people are willing to die in a war they have no chance of winning.

It's stand up for your people or watch them essentially be tortured slowly to death.

[–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean, at the same time I can't support mass rape. Or rape in general.

Also not a fan of carrying around naked corpses of multilated people. Not a fan.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You think every Palestinian is doing that?

That's the main use of propaganda, take some isolated incidents that really did happen nd really are inexcusable, and amplify the shit out of that so people think the whole side is doing that.

The militaries of both sides are doing awful shit, but only one side has the power to enforce peace.

[–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You think every Palestinian is doing that?

Which part of "Hamas awful actions" made you think that I extend this to all Palestinians?

[–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It’s stand up for your people or watch them essentially be tortured slowly to death.

There is another option. Negotiate a viable peace, which they have refused to do repeatedly. Palestine is essentially a defeated state that refuses to acknowledge its loss or make concessions. The only victory condition they are willing to entertain is not viable and their insistence on fighting an unwinnable war, often via guerilla attacks and terrorism, will not end well for them.

[Hamas's charter,] article 13, "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Gaza's last election was 17 years ago...

And Israel both refuses to recognize Hamas as a government, but also refuses to help Gaza hold an election.

They won't negotiate with Gaza, which because it was separated from the West Bank by Israel is essentially it's own government. It's pretty classic "divide and conquer".

And before you say "Israel shouldn't be involved" then why are they in charge of pretty much every other facet of Gaza?

[–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Wikipedia says Palestinian presidential elections were indefinitely postponed by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas due to a Hamas-Fatah schism:

The elections took place amid a tense atmosphere between Fatah and Hamas over the postponement of more major elections that were also scheduled for 2021. It was also reported that voters were angry with the postponement of the presidential election and the legislative election by President Mahmoud Abbas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021%E2%80%9322_Palestinian_local_elections


Israel both refuses to recognize Hamas as a government, but also refuses to help Gaza hold an election. ... And before you say “Israel shouldn’t be involved” then why are they in charge of pretty much every other facet of Gaza?

Because they are an adjacent hostile terrorist state, dedicated to their destruction, that they want to contain via leverage?

[–] eatthecake@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Raping women is standing up for palestinians is it? How exactly have the actions of hamas helped the palestinian people?

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You can just scroll down and read the rest of the comment chain.

I'll even quote the first for free

You think every Palestinian is doing that?

That’s the main use of propaganda, take some isolated incidents that really did happen nd really are inexcusable, and amplify the shit out of that so people think the whole side is doing that.

The militaries of both sides are doing awful shit, but only one side has the power to enforce peace.

[–] eatthecake@lemmy.world -3 points 1 year ago

You said hamas awful actions didnt happen in a vacuum and that they are standing up for their people. You are justifying mass rape as a war tactic. There is plenty criticize israel for but justifying the torture of civillians is appalling.

[–] MeanEYE@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, and that was never the plan. Had it been Israel has far more efficient ways of doing it. The goal is to put the pressure on Hamas, two million people worth of pressure. You can claim you are fighting for freedom until stomachs start grumbling. Then Israel hopes Palestinians will turn on Hamas and the whole thing will be over or at least at a different stage where something can be done without wiping the whole place.