The Trump administration has, for the first time ever, built a searchable national citizenship data system.
The tool, which is being rolled out in phases, is designed to be used by state and local election officials to give them an easier way to ensure only citizens are voting. But it was developed rapidly without a public process, and some of those officials are already worrying about what else it could be used for.
NPR is the first news organization to report the details of the new system.
For decades, voting officials have noted that there was no national citizenship list to compare their state lists to, so to verify citizenship for their voters, they either needed to ask people to provide a birth certificate or a passport — something that could disenfranchise millions — or use a complex patchwork of disparate data sources.
What happens if someone is illegitimately removed from this database? How can you show whether it was a glitch, or deliberate? How do you know if the information they have about you is even right, or get it changed if you need to? Where's the accountability?
See the UK Post Office accounting scandal, in which a persistent computer error went unfixed for decades and caused hundreds of post office employees to be fired and dragged through courts for corruption that never happened. A good chunk of them committed suicide. The government and the software company both knew about the bug causing the issue, too, but prosecutions continued. "If the computer says it, it must be right", sort of danger.
The database is the least important part of the system: the organizational structure, rules, and procedures are way more important, because they actively help or harm people.
The database is the backbone of them being able to hurt or harm so I'd say it's pretty important. Here's the other problem though. The federal government under Trump is having a really difficult time protecting the personal identifiable information of the citizens. Not only have they allowed private companies to access that data (palantir etc), but they are also having a lot of difficulties with cyber attacks. Part of the reason those cyber attacks haven't been as effective as they could be is because the data isn't localized in one place. Now that's exactly what they're trying to do with this.
That's a really weird way of looking at it. Without the database, there's no central ledger to consult as to whether or not you're legally a person. Like @atrielienz@lemmy.world said:
Without that starting point, "the organizational structure, rules, and procedures" that rely on the data from the database are impotent.
That's how I roll.
We're already seeing them do that without a database. 🤷♂️
Other countries are able to maintain internal databases without using them to screw over their own citizens (except when they do). The problem isn't the database.
That the someone cannot vote. But you can design system resilient to this.
Paper trail.
You check it. I mean, when I ask for a document I expect to receive it. And I check if it is correct, after all human error can happen anyway.
Every document from the state (any level) I have has a signature that indicate who is ultimately accountable for it.
Database logs and procedural logs is how you know.
If you move state etc you would update your details with the government, just like you already should be doing.
"illegitimately" is the key word there. I'm not interested in what you think happens if everything is working as intended, or your poor reading comprehension. F-, rewrite your answer and address the question or you'll fail the class and be held back a grade.
Oh the irony. Database and procedural logs are automatic and extensive, that's why I mentioned them. No amount of "illegitimate" actions would sidestep them. Go back to school.
Logs, eh? You know those are just text files, right? And how do you plan to get access to them to prove any kind of mistake or malfeasance, exactly?
Well no, they’re not just text files lol.
You’re basically saying that everyone that can have anything to do with the database and systems around it are corrupt and working together. That’s a ridiculous conspiracy theory.
No, just the person in charge has to order it. People do what their bosses tell them. Rules and procedures don't matter if the people in charge ignore them. And again, you're not getting access to any of the data we're talking about in the first place, because the government would have to grant that access, and you're not a person as far as they're concerned in this scenario. What organisations have you worked for that would just give out information to a person they can't verify the identity of?
No, it's happening now in the US. You seem woefully under-informed to be trying to comment on current affairs. Maybe stick to your own country until you're up to speed.
No, they don't - not when it's illegal, and especially not when it's something like this. You guys always love to bang on about the whole January 6 thing where Trump supposedly ordered all sorts of things of the ballot counters etc - and they didn't do it, did they? People say no to their bosses all the time.
So the DOJ/FBI/CIA/etc never investigate anything internal? I'm not talking about me specifically lol.
Wait so this National Citizenship Database already exists and is already being corrupted with legitimate citizens being deleted from it because they're not registered Republicans?! Where can I read more about this? How was it exposed? You just finished telling me that there would be no way to know, didn't you? So how do you know?
Same fucking way americans correct issues with SSA, DHS, and the IRS: paperwork. Come the fuck on with this slippery slope bullshit. Ever had a job? The I-9 employment authorization paperwork... just shut up
Yes I think you missed the point.
If you are purged you can't vote. That becomes a problem on election day.
You might get a feel-good provisional ballot but no real way to track that it got counted.
This is what happened last year, except by a bunch of randos claiming that so-and-so wasn't a legal voter, with no proof or recourse.
So now they can just check against RNC registered voters and "disable" 10% of people who aren't registered RNC and no way to prove or possibly even know until after the election passes.
No thanks.
Not to mention they could run this against the voter rolls, so you show as eligible if you check your registration status, but have your ballot tossed (or get turned around at the polling place) because you're not on this other database.
It's fascinating to see this find new pastures in the new world. As a proud Russian citizen.
Some day you'll remember with nostalgie those years of the ruling party actually caring to win elections.
Jokes aside, it's easier to cheat now because it's easier to do everything, and that's because of the Internet and modern computing systems.
You can't unmince minced meat back.
But you can apply the same change in a different direction and see that today direct non-anonymous democracy is actually plausible, if it's instituted, for big countries. 100 years ago it simply wasn't possible. Now it is.
Or that today Soviet system (as in Soviet democracy and not totalitarian state capitalism) is actually possible to build. When they were trying, they couldn't, they didn't possess the means.
And that both these things are actually what these people have done to us, but inverted. Our "direct vote" is the data they collect about us to classify and predict us for control. Our "Soviets" are that classification, and our "central planning" is those predictions and control.
They've done all this, just directed for their own interest. So maybe one can do the opposite.
Slippery slope? It's literally been done. Voter roles purged too close to an election to be able to vote. The complaint here is that this database makes it too easy to do what they've already done a bunch of times.
You can be snarky, or you can be ignorant. It's a bad look to be both.
Looking for ways the system can be abused and addressing those loopholes is basic risk assessment, so
I strongly suggest taking a heaping helping of your own advice, mate.