Ah! But you can skip all that messy biology abd stuff i don't understand that's probably not important, abd just think of it as a classical computer running an x86 architecture, and checkmate, liberal my argument owns you now!

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Because LLMs operate at the token level, I think it would be a more fair comparison with humans to ask why humans can't produce the IPA spelling words they can say, /nɔr kæn ðeɪ ˈizəli rid θɪŋz ˈrɪtən ˈpjʊrli ɪn aɪ pi ˈeɪ/ despite the fact that it should be simple to -- they understand the sounds after all. I'd be impressed if somebody could do this too! But that most people can't shouldn't really move you to think humans must be fundamentally stupid because of this one curious artifact. Maybe they are fundamentall stupid for other reasons, but this one thing is quite unrelated.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

why humans can’t produce the IPA spelling words they can say, /nɔr kæn ðeɪ ˈizəli rid θɪŋz ˈrɪtən ˈpjʊrli ɪn aɪ pi ˈeɪ/ despite the fact that it should be simple to – they understand the sounds after all

That's just access to the right keyboard interface. Humans can and do produce those spellings with additional effort or advanced tool sets.

humans must be fundamentally stupid because of this one curious artifact.

Humans turns oatmeal into essays via a curios lump of muscle is an impressive enough trick on its face.

LLMs have 95% of the work of human intelligence handled for them and still stumble on the last bits.

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I mean, among people who are proficient with IPA, they still struggle to read whole sentences written entirely in IPA. Similarly, people who speak and read chinese struggle to read entire sentences written in pinyin. I'm not saying people can't do it, just that it's much less natural for us (even though it doesn't really seem like it ought to be.)

I agree that LLMs are not as bright as they look, but my point here is that this particular thing -- their strange inconsistency understanding what letters correspond to the tokens they produce -- specifically shouldn't be taken as evidence for or against LLMs being capable in any other context.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Similarly, people who speak and read chinese struggle to read entire sentences written in pinyin.

Because pinyin was implemented by the Russians to teach Chinese to people who use Cyrillic characters. Would make as much sense to call out people who can't use Katakana.

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago

More like calling out people who can't read romaji, I think. It's just not a natural encoding for most Japanese people, even if they can work it out if you give them time.