this post was submitted on 07 May 2025
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[–] chaogomu@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Horseshoe theory completely ignores the actual origins of the terms Left and Right in order to push a false narrative that they're somehow the same.

It's very simple. The terms Left and Right come from a vote held in the French Assembly just before the Revolution.

The vote was, "should the King have an absolute veto over laws passed by the Assembly?" Those sitting to the Left of the Speaker's podium said No, those to the Right said Yes.

Knowing the true origin of the terms makes defining them easy, if you are in favor of more power to the people, then you are on the left, if you think power should be concentrated to the few, you're on the right.

This can apply to social issues as well. If you think minorities deserve protection and representation then you are on the left, if not you're a horrible person.

The economy, if you think everyone should have a truly fair shake, you're on the left, if you think money makes some people better than others, you're on the right.

See how easy that is? Which is why the right wing invented Horseshoe theory. To confuse people.

That and some dictators flat out lied about what they were doing and claimed to be Communist.

Because Lenin betrayed the Revolution after losing the only free and fair election that Russia has ever had.

[–] A_norny_mousse@feddit.org 6 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (1 children)

Some people just cannot wrap their head around the difference between totalitarianism and socialism.

But I will say this: viewing political opinion on a straight line never really made much sense. At the very least one should think of it as a field (2 dimensions instead of 1). And of course this does NOT mean that I approve of the horseshit theory.

[–] chaogomu@lemmy.world 3 points 8 hours ago

Every time I try to come up with a different metric, it usually boils down to, "where does the ultimate power lie".

In an ideal democracy, that power comes from the consent of the governed, i.e. the people and their direct vote. But that's usually untenable on larger scales, so thus power is concentrated. The how of that concentration can lead to all sorts of axis on a chart, but in the end, the other side of the chart is usually some form of direct democracy, i.e. returning power to the people.

[–] peregrin5@lemm.ee -5 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

So you go into a conversation about a modern topic where the modern definition of terms is a particular thing, and then you said "well ackshually the definition of this in 1780 was this so you're wrong".

I don't think anyone cares what the definition of left and right are in 1780s France and it has no bearing on a modern discussion of these terms.

[–] chaogomu@lemmy.world 3 points 8 hours ago

The point I'm making is that the trough line has always been, Right-wing concentrated power, Left-wing distributed power.

The fact that certain dictators have pretended to be left-wing, and right-wing jackasses have gone along with it, is where the deliberate confusion was introduced.

Communism as proposed by Marx is a true leftwing ideology, the Totalitarian dictatorship created by Lenin was communist in name only, it had more in common with Feudalism than communism. Mao was just as bad. An out of touch dictator who told farmers to plant their seeds several feet underground, and when that obviously failed, feasted while they starved.

That doesn't seem anything like what Marx wrote about, or rather it was disturbingly similar to what Marx wrote about capitalism.

But again, right-wingers love to confuse the issue, because it turns out kings are not popular, so you have to lie to get people to bow before one.